Cardinals Underground – Of Coaching And Changes

So many questions about coaching have come out of the end of the regular season and the first round of the playoffs for the NFL, but Paul Calvisi, Darren Urban and Dani Sureck know that Jonathan Gannon is in place for the Cardinals and that means they are that much more ahead of last season. Among the topics discussed: What to pick at 4, and whether a wide receiver makes sense, the need for a big-time pass rusher, what unrestricted free agents of their own might the Cardinals target for return, needing to find wins in the NFC West, Pete Carroll’s departure, the sinking Texans first-round pick and the excellence of C.J. Stroud, and Paul honors the yeoman’s work of sideline reporters at the bitter cold postseason games.

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So in an effort to make sure that we don’t have a repeat occurrence of the Mike Tomlin press conference specifically the very end where there was the walk away walk-off question that never was is there a question I should avoid with the two of you here on Cardinals underground Paul calvisi

Darren Urban Danny s is there a third rail sort of question that I could pose that I should stay away from for example that we wouldn’t want to answer right like with Danny I mean if I might be so bold you know the green bean casserole probably shouldn’t bring up the green

Bean casserole right Danny that’s fine I’ll defend I was going to say she’s going to answer that ask away you got you got to ask something that isn’t going to be asked oh okay well I just want to make sure if there’s any you know any sort of out of bounds you know

Territory or topics that I should avoid at all costs I got to be honest Paul there’s probably a few that pop into my mind but I’m not going to bring them up because stud loans for example you’re not a big fan of student loans with two

College age kids or so honestly I did a good job in and got them through school with no debt there you go and no loans okay so okay all right good we’re good we’re happy about that okay let’s just I mean you can keep poking eventually you’ll probably hit something that I

Wouldn’t want to talk about but I’m okay with the student I mean I I don’t love student loans you guys are already ahead of the game at least uh based on the fact that no you just don’t know enough about us no you’re ahead of the game and

We’re going to keep it that way for the start of this week okay you guys are at least uh winning in the fact you showed up for your your duties here your broadcast studies as opposed to the Brain Trust of the Dallas Cowboys that decided to bag out on their radio show

This week maybe that’s a third Jerry Jones and step Jones you’re right uh you know what let me write that down if I recall I’m pretty sure they did the same thing right before they let go Jason Garrett okay did you hear the little anecdote from Mike too they were at

Kansas City and uh he said in it was second half of the game at some point he said hey Mike you idiot right he’s talking about himself holding himself account accountable cuz he thought all the fans turning around and snapping pictures was because of Jason Garrett the former Cowboys head coach when in

Fact they were directly above Taylor Swift I love it so no it is interesting because you know Jerry Jones and Stephen Jones they go on a local radio station every week and they decided not to go on it this week after that loss which I think technically I would assume that

That deal that agreement probably ends as soon as the Cowboy season ends but still you know I you don’t have to be a former employee to know that those two any chance for publicity and going on the radio so it’s something to keep your eye on there’s a there’s a lot of

Coaching things that could still happen I mean this is by far the most coaching questions over coaches that made the freaking playoffs I mean if we’re talking about Tomlin we’re talking about McCarthy we’re talking about Nick serani yeah well I mean the question that led to Mike Tomlin walking off the podium was

Coach you have one year left in your contract dot dot dot he gone he just bolted right there which to me that’s the worst response you could have I mean what as opposed to getting up there and saying what Paul like I’m not concerned about that right now that’s not at the

Forefront of my mind like that’s all you have to say but he hasn’t won a playoff game in seven years and Naji Harris among those in the locker room saying there needs to be change at least in how some rules are set according to Naji Harris when when we start talking about

The coaching changes that have happened not just the potential ones in the playoffs but we’re talking about you know Pete Caroll I mean Mike Tomlin Pete Carol I I’ve long Bill bich I’ve long been a person I I get it while you’re there long term I get it I think Mike

Tomlin is an excellent coach but I do think that after a while it can get stale and obviously tomlin’s had super success for a long time belich did the same thing there is exceptions to the rule but even then you know like you just said the the Steelers haven’t

Advanced very far in a long time they’re they’re winning games but they’re in this Purgatory where they never have a losing record so they never have a good enough draft pick to really improve their team is it recency biased to say that the uh circumspection of head

Coaches is thus in 2024 that even playoff coaches are more likely to get canned than ever before whether it’s in Philly that’s a playoff team whether it’s Dallas that’s a playoff team the Steelers might make a coaching change a playoff team I got a I got a couple one I want

To it does bother me a little bit I mean if you’re Nick serani and you just got to the Super Bowl and then a year later after an 11- win season and your your jobs and I that I struggle with a little bit I understand they might have had

Issues but I struggle with that but it’s funny that you’re talking about you obviously we brought up the Cowboys I I I asked this of my two sons who have grown up Cardinals fans because they live here and I they’re they were born here they’re they’re the fans of the

Local teams and obviously me working for the team doesn’t hurt that equation but I asked them I said be as objective as you can would you rather be a Cardinals fan or a Cowboys fan Cowboys fans get to enjoy a lot of Victories but they have expectations that just seem to just

Rip at the soul where I I understand Cardinals fans don’t have that as much and they obviously get upset when the team loses but there’s actually there seems to be some highs there when the Cardinals do do well which do the Cowboys have any highs if they don’t win

The Super Bowl like it it just seems like a miserable existence the stat I saw by the way is since the Barry Switzer Super Bowl win which was some 30 years ago they’ve won four of 16 playoff games so to Darren’s point they make the postseason with

Regularity they win a lot of regular season games very little playoff success over the last three decades the reason I was laughing is cuz I could only imagine my dad’s response who was a lifelong Cowboys fan well he’s a lifelong listening to Cardinal under no I got

Calls from my dad from my brother-in-law saying you know I am not even a Cowboys fan anymore I am full in on the bird gang Cardinals only uh it’s I I think part of that is just with the cowboy specifically such a storied franchise and a franchise that has had so much

Success a lot of this fan base are people who were fans when the Cowboys were winning and that’s not just in Texas that’s all over the us all over the world because right like not there weren’t a lot of teams or they weren’t being played on local stations the way

The Cowboys were I think that’s part of my least understanding is some of that frustration is when you’re talking about Cardinals vers Cowboys is the expectations are through the roof because you have had success yes it was a long time ago but that’s what a lot of

Lot of the fan base is used to and that’s their expectation you didn’t answer the question though do you think it’s better for a person to be a Cowboys fan or a Cardinals fan for that reason I’m like again I I’m and I’m not trying

To look I I I work for the team I’m acknowledging that this team obviously has had its struggles and trust me I interact with the Cardinals fan base on a daily basis I understand the anger that some of them have that the Cardinals have struggled mightily but it just it crossed my mind

Having gone through for instance and obviously this has been forever ago now but 15 years ago going through that Super Bowl run like I don’t I don’t know if a Cowboys fan could have such a fun Super Bowl run as the Cardinals did in 2008 because if you’re expecting them to

Be not only in the Super Bowl but winning the Super Bowl like every step like where’s the joy well I think that was part of it before the playoff game Mike McCarthy’s job was already supposedly on the line in Dallas that was already a talking point before a kickoff even

Happened look the two most memorable SL meaningful moments from the first playoff weekend to me were both from the Detroit game and one has a cardinal connection to me when the fans didn’t leave the stadium that reminded me the 2008 NFC Championship win yeah you just

Have a fan base that was soaking in the moment didn’t want it to end didn’t want to leave those that was the Lions fan base in that moment that video of jarro G leaving the field he was the last player to Le the field cuz he did an infinite number of postgame interviews

Out on the field everyone’s still in their seats still giving him a standing o I thought that was really cool and reminded me of the Cardinals 2008 and then the Cutaway with all due respect to Taylor Swift the most meaningful cutaway was the shot of the lion season ticket

Holder 89 years of age in his 66 season as a ticket holder he has seen some stuff let me tell you and as my old man who’s a Detroit native who used to go to the Lions games I’ve heard native I and I’ve heard so have you not heard your

Share over the years oh when Bobby Lane won the 1957 NFL title and know back when the Lions were playing at Tiger Stadium that guy was there for that game my uh my grandmother passed away of uh lung cancer 2003 I think and uh the the

Last I I got a chance to talk to her it was right at the end of the football season and I didn’t we didn’t know quite how bad she was was um but the last chance I had to talk to her I I was on the phone with her and we were talking

About the Lions and uh Joey Harrington was the quarterback yes and I said I said what do you think Graham you think Joey Harrington’s the answer and she’s like she’s like they’re the Lions he’s never going to pan out and she was right look it’s someone who covered the Lions

For a couple years back when they had Chris Spielman and Barry Sanders and Lis Brown all that you know I mean most of liance fans their their mantro is we couldn’t win even when we had Barry Sanders but they figured it out and what did they do and this is where if you’re

A Cardinals fan you hope it’s a case study they came in they changed the culture they got a lot more physical they got a lot more demanding they put a lot more accountability into the equation they rebuilt the offensive line I mean that Lions offensive line had its

Way yeah in that game so they put a lot of assets into that they got a premier pass rusher number two overall and Aiden Hinson which is foreshadowing I’m going to talk about the Cardinals need in that area a little bit later and why it trumps the need for a receiver anyway

You look at everything that they did in Detroit and I think there are a lot of parallels to what the Cardinals where the Cardinals are tracking and trending and hopefully think about it a Dan Campbell in his first year had three wins started year two one and six and

Then it’s been a complete turn around ever since I agree I think we’ve talked about that from the beginning of the culture and the effort that is being played every single game and playing for each other and playing for this coaching staff and I think there are parallels

This is not a situation where before this had Co this this coaching staff took over it felt like the approach was kind of okay let’s just find a couple of pieces right it was more of a free agency Hall not Hall but that that was more of the approach of finding those

Veteran players and trying to plug in and do that and this has been a complete Hall and it feels like it’s going more young players right like not not as experienced but trying to build players up and build around that and that also feels similar to what Detroit has done

That’s why I feel like to almost go back to your question Darren is right now it’s probably better to be a Cardinals fan because you can feel that it is within reason to have hope that things are turning around and turning around for the better and that a true

Foundation is being set the Cardinals aren’t trying to just plug in players where they needed and and patch in some holes and try and get by with who they have you can tell that things are really being changed and that’s why I think that this organization is trending

Upwards truly is a good example like Detroit is you have the right people in place and everybody is playing with the right mindset a true team mindset and that I I still think when you’ve got Kyler Murray as your quarterback that absolutely elevates the rest of your

Team no disrespect to somebody like jar gof but when you’ve got a like Kyler Murray makes your chances of finding success a whole lot better also I I’m and I I’ve been mulling this in my head while Danny was talking because I can’t think of anybody else I don’t know if I

Could think of two coaches that if you drop them in their respective team’s locker room and put him in a uniform and send them out there with a team more that they you you you could see them fitting in whatever position they play Jonathan Ganon in the the defensive

Backfield Dan camel back at at tight end I mean obviously Jonathan gon with his hip history is long past that but still saying they have that player mentality is what you’re saying there just there’s that feel to it they their coaches and they do handle it a little bit different

I mean we’re never going to get a bite the kneecaps quote out of Jonathan Ganon I don’t think I think he plays it closer to the vest than Dan Campbell will in terms of public publicly but but but Ganon had his we want Killers comment that’s true he did and so I mean

Although that was something that was said behind the scenes that got out rather than something said in a press conference yeah so but you’re right it’s a it is a similar mentality I also think Brad Holmes the GM who’s done an amazing job of put pulling Aman Ross St Brown

Out of the fourth round and he’s an allp proo Receiver Michael Wilson maybe hello just throwing that out there to do that sort of roster building reconstruction and then to actually show emotion you see the video that went viral where he’s on the right Diz was in that is in the

Elevator too I noticed does that remind you of another GM maybe in the tunnel after a win celebrating showing emotion with the players you know there’s some similarities I think in there and then you had a motivated Jared G don’t forget the Rams traded not only gof but two

First round picks for Matthew Stafford so golf went out there and he was really motivated which I I loved postgame do you see Dan Campell handing out that game ball to gol and all he had to say was you’re good enough for us here in

Detroit I love that now I I do want to I mean again the the margins here are so little I mean they only won by a point it’s not like they rolled over the Rams and I’m not saying they’re not a great team or they’re not going in the right

Direction but like it’s just funny how different this conversation could be if the Rams would have made one more field goal do you think the Rams were a tougher playoff opponent than the Tamp Bay Buccaneers will be I mean the Rams were red hot going into the postseason

They started three and six won seven out of eight Matthew Stafford was dealing now they didn’t get enough pressure on jarro go the stat was on pass attempts where there was no pressure on jarro G he was 22 of 22 which once again reinforces quarterback get to the quarterback well

Considering the Buccaneers blitzed like 90% of the time against the Eagles I think that’s going to change that was another memorable moment was Todd BS the big wide smile at the end because so rarely never see Todd smile it was nice and he gave that big beaming smile and

There was so that was one you never see and then number two to your point Daron what you always see out of Todd BS is leading the league in Blitz rate yes and he did like two-thirds of the time he brought the heat early in the game I

Happen to have on the Manning cast and pton Manning’s like they’re every time they go empty they’re blitzing and I started watching I’m like oh my God every single time they were in empty they blitzed yes and Eagles had no answer no that was really bad I mean

Think about so Nick serani okay they start 10 and one they lose six to the last seven including the playoff loss what team does that remind you of in recent history 2021 and how can you not be Jeffrey lurry wondering we lost Jonathan Ganon we lost Shane

Styken I kept I kept thinking of Jonathan Ganon obviously you’re thinking what degree were they propping up Nick serion but I I gotta like the Miss tackles like I every coach hates that but I was just imagining if Jonathan Ganon was coaching a team like that and

I’ll honest I couldn’t picture a team Jonathan Ganon was coaching missing tackles like that I literally said to my son during that game I said you know what it’s almost like the eagles are using the change and defensive coordinator as an excuse to mail in the rest of the season because they’re going

Out there with like zero want to but can can you now put that performance still on your defensive coordinator and the change is that really the answer with Matt Patricia if you’re seeing a performance like that see right because because here’s the thing it’s it was one

Game and that was all the Eagles fans they were going after Jonathan Ganon with the Super Bowl loss and saying how oh he his head wasn’t in it because he took the Cardinal job and all this stuff I haven’t looked are they going after Matt Patricia the same after a

Performance like that I know but going after the head coach now hey our Cowboys fans going after Dan Quinn his name’s in like a half dozen different head coaching interview now and and was he preoccupied was he distracted because effective the next morning he was going to be interviewing for head coaching

Gigs around the league in fact uh can I give you a hot take how about the fact that the Lions both of their coordinators who is it Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn they’re both scheduled to interview with a handful of teams after practice Friday and Saturday oh the

Lions are going to lose against the Tampa Bay Bucks because their two coordinators are going to interview for head coaching gigs at the end of this week obviously they won’t be playoff ready why why why don’t they change it to where you can’t interview until maybe

Not once your team is done but post Super Bowl for everybody though yeah for for head coaching roles be because ultimately when the Super Bowl’s over everybody’s going to the combine like six days later and everybody needs to have their stuff in place I mean I just

Feel like it would I I I’m I’m not saying that coaches are not able to have their minds and and you know prepar and still be but it’s like it feels like it would eliminate that argument well see I don’t see to me the argument isn’t I

Mean uh Paul and I were around a team where Todd Haley was essentially everybody knew he was going to be the Chief’s head coach before the Super Bowl was played and honestly that didn’t take away from what he did in the Super Bowl I I thought actually he did a good job

In the Super Bowl if you had any argument is that he didn’t go to the the hurry up faster but he had good it wasn’t because he was distracted no it was because he was scared to death CT Warner was going to get hurt in the first quarter because they didn’t have

An offensive line that could hold up to the Steelers pass rush but but by the way my Ry smile was later he admitted an interview he wished he would have opened up the offense earlier not just the second half that he would have you know brought they all think that

Pass first in the first half and I’ve talked to him multiple times about it and again the concern was if Kurt Warner gets hurt in the beginning of the second quarter they’re done so we’ve got to find a way to shorten this game but anyways um I don’t think that that

Should be a big issue I I I understand where you’re coming from but unless they change the the draft and the combine and that whole schedule which and then the off season and rookie mini camp otaca okay uh so here you are Cardinals have a head coach they have a GM obviously what

Sort of Head Start do you think that gives them on 2024 to what degree now in hindsight hit rewind were the Cardinals always playing catchup last year just because the year started with a brand new set of decision makers yes I I think that would be any team

That you’re having to have a new general manager and a new head coach and all the pieces that go with that I think too you’re having to look at the situation of what the Cardinals were this time a year ago and so I I don’t know if that’s necessarily playing from behind um

Playing catchup as much as that was just the situation I think any coach any general manager in front office you know people who came in knew that there were going to be pieces is that were on the Cardinals roster when they came that they were not going to want on this

Roster when the season ended and that you knew you were going to be playing with a thinner roster when you’re looking at the pieces you have and the depth and not to say that it was a lost cause you weren’t expecting to win or be competitive I do think the carals were a

Lot more competitive than anybody gave them credit for at the start of the year so I do think yes you were playing catchup to an extent I also think that was just the situation that the Cardinals were in but I do think that when you have an entire new staff in

Front office there’s a lot of decisions that have to be made not just with Personnel but also the culture and the vision of the future and who you’re hiring to to get to that winning culture and to get to those wins and that end goal I do think it is impressive in a

Calendar year what we have seen from this Cardinals team which starts at the very top and the improvements that we saw in a calendar year I do I think catchup is inevitable but it also had to do with where this team was I mean this team was

Starting from scratch in a lot of ways with not just the hes but what they wanted to do with the team and nearing clear cap space I mean I I don’t think any of that was going to to filter out in one season so why rush things and it

And it’s you know that’s that’s an important thing when you bring in a new Brain Trust like when you start rushing stuff that that you can make mistakes I guess I would also contend you you think you know what you have do you really know until the games begin for example

Greg dorch if they were really honest did they think Greg dorch was even going to make the final 53 but he bowled out during all those Camp practices was one of the last guys I would surmise to make the roster didn’t get much playing time

By the time you hit December okay wait a minute this guy’s a keeper he can play and so whereas other situations Marco Wilson your number one corner didn’t even play down the stretch and wasn’t even there for the final couple games so there were things you can only learn in

Game situations I think the same kind of in the opposite realm would be like TI and Trey McBride I’m sure they saw good things of him and you know the the truth is last season the few opportunities that McBride really had to shine he didn’t make the most of them there were

A good amount of drops or miscommunication so I think in the opposite realm of someone like Marco Wilson you look at at Trey McBride and you probably think you have an idea of what he could become I don’t know that they expected him to blossom and grow

And Thrive the way he did the second half of the season I mean they didn’t know until Zack Herz got hurt no honestly to your point and even if they did have some ideas as long as Zack her was playing there MC needed those reps he needed the confidence he needed the

Chemistry with his quarterback and you know again they they played to win they they played to do as best they could at the beginning of the season and I know Jonathan Ganon denied the tale of two seasons the whole time but it’s hard not

To look at this team and say it was you were really going to have a hard time especially offensively knowing exactly what you were going to have and do until Kyler came back on the field and Michael Wilson said so the final postgame radio interview it just took time those were

His words took time for the coaches to learn the players strong suits took time for everybody to be fluent in the offense took time for Kyler to learn the receivers so to me at the very least there’s the known and the unknown the one known is I would think there are far

Fewer questions for Jonathan ganet and Monty Austin for entering this off season are there still questions significant questions significant areas that need to be remedied and improved absolutely just not as many questions now the degree of difficulty in some of these questions might be great like where do you find that game wrecking

Pass rusher how do you resolve you did say you were going to bring that up Paul well I’m just saying that if you look at some of for example gave you the stat on jarro go how effective he was correct you have to figure out a way I

Think and this is the priority of the offseason is getting to the quarterback you got to find that guy unfortunately I don’t think that guy’s there at number four nope and because of that I don’t think you can afford to take a receiver at number four I know there’s one

There’s one mock draft out there right now that has Marvin Harrison Jr going three and then the Cardinals still taking receiver at four to new to New England yes stays at New England I mean no that’s not and I don’t think that’s going to happen with this set of

Decision makers I think they value the line of scrimmage so much I just don’t see them going receiver at four right now I agree I I was leading that charge for a long time I’m now wavering if Marvin Harrison is on the board if that

Could change I I don’t know if they do it otherwise the thing is is your your implication is what that they take an offensive lineman or that they trade down either one either one either you take that if he’s worthy of four the pennate or Notre

Dame tackle you go that route or you trade down now the lesson learned 15 years ago was once upon a time you passed up on Terrell Suggs 20 years ago 20 years ago 2003 and you cash that in for two lower first round picks end up being Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace

Swinging a miss you missed out on a Hall of Famer so I get it and obviously Larry Fitzgerald was a grand slam and number three overall I just my inclination is to think that this set of decision makers though they view the line of scrimmage as so far and above a priority

Beyond receiver and then when you see guys like Aman R Brown coming out of the fourth round you see puka NKU out of the fifth round you just pulled Michael Wilson out of the third round I just think they’re much more inclined if they’re going to go receiver they end up

Going that route with the Texans pick which right now was 25 and CJ strad you’re absolutely killing us at this point we’ll get into that in a minute the the this whole discussion is uh is Bengals 2021 2022 pan Su versus Jamar Chase and I think it was the fourth pick I think

And they took Chase maybe yes because the Cowboys were right after LA and the Chargers took Su I remember watching that and lions took Su right who am I thinking of then Chargers um I don’t know I just know the Bengals had a chance to protect Joe burrow and they

Decided to get him a weapon instead and I’m envisioning his face and I lost his the Bengals you you’ll think of it I’m gonna look it up okay um well okay we’re in the truster right 2019 Cardinals take Kyler Murray number one overall 2020 who’s on the board at 8 Isaiah Simmons

And Tristan wors yep number of assistant coaches wanted the tackle yep you got to protect that quarterback after you just drafted in number one overall Cardinals went defense and that was a whiff a bad whiff uh anyway that’s that’s just my my inclination at this point so much can

Obviously change ran Slater there you go that’s it boom um I here’s how I feel about a wide receiver at four you mean yes if Marvin Harrison Jr is the elite player the expectations of being another Larry Fitzgerald es wide receiver great it’s obviously a need the situation the Cardinals are in

Right now it is hard to argue that you should take advantage of that spot if the right player is there and not build in the trenches you had a rotation at left guard you don’t have a question at left tackle with DJ Humphrey is going to be recovering his ACL are the Cardinals

Going to stick with humph and maybe have a veteran like Kelvin Beach him stay there are they going to move Paris Johnson Jr either way you have questions and you have holes that need to be filled on the offensive line you still have holes on the defensive line as well

You could absolutely use a big body there but I agree with you Paul I think the lack of pass rush that we saw the second half of the Season which is really what we expected all year the first half the Sparks we saw were a little bit of a surprise is a glaring

Need and I think when you’re looking at four it really does make more sense to either go in the trenches more than likely an interior offensive lineman or a pass rusher and we’ve seen in recent years if you’ve got an Aiden Hutchinson if you’ve got a Micah Parsons if you got

A TJ watt they can be absolute game changers for you doesn’t take away later in the first round or you want to go to day two right talking about the other glaring needs of a cornerback you want to get a wide receiver a d lineman but I

Do think offensive line or an edge rusher right now January 16th I think those would really make the most sense for the Cardinals not just immediate but also longterm in what they are trying to build well if you’re talking four right now and we’re we’re way early in the process I don’t think

There is a defense there’s not going to be an edge guy that should go for so you’re basically talking offensive line offensive line now which is fine and the name I dropped before is Brian Burns Out of Carolina if he hits the market and we know Carolina should have locked him up

A long time ago why would he want to stay at at this point he’s going to test the market so if franchise him but if he somehow does hit the market uh boom that’s where I could see easily that’s where you make the big spend and you

Don’t have to give up an asset in return unlike the Bears who gave up a high if they franchise them and do you look into a trade two first round picks no that’s trade you wouldn’t it wouldn’t be a two first round picks it would be you’d give them the Texans first and

Then some other package no it wouldn’t be we can see look if if there are deemed four worthy quarterbacks in this draft because there are more than four teams in need of a franchise quarterback and all of a sudden you get a hall for number four because a Jaden Daniels or a Michael

Pennick or a Bo Knicks is deemed that guy then okay you know then maybe you take some of those assets you get in a trade like that and it’s just it’s interesting that you bring up Suggs who I’ve gone back and forth with a a g in

The mailbag for two weeks now cuz he’s still angry about that which I’m like all right it’s time to move on dude here’s here’s the other thing is oh I was just going to finish and say it you’re talking you and you just mention it do you pass up on a Adrien Peterson

Do you pass up on a Will Anderson like th that’s the issue that you have when you’re talking about and so that’s to me that’s the scouting comes down to like if you really feel like this guy is a generational guy I I think you got to give it a lot

More thought than just we can get receiver later ABS absolutely I think we are on the same page of Mars Marvin Harrison Jr according to the scouting department is everything that has been said about him as a generational Talent take him if you think that that’s

Going to be the Difference Maker for you it is still important though you talk about all the time Paul is protecting the quarterback and getting to the quarterback the other argument when you’re talking about a wide receiver and not necessarily Harrison if you drop down a few spots and you’re looking at a

A receiver or an offensive lineman a lot of this stems back to Hollywood Brown who is a pending free agent he has made it clear he wants to be here if both sides are able to agree and he’s able to be here on a one-year Pro it deal since he hasn’t been healthy

The two years he’s been a cardinal that to me still makes sense I think if he is healthy with a healthy Michael Wilson when which I know sounds like we’re asking a lot right now I think what we saw in the last two games is if you can

Kind of get rolling especially when you’ve got Trey McBride you’ve got running backs who are good receivers you can continue to work with what you have as a receiver which makes the argument of getting a pass rusher or an offensive lineman at the top of the draft and then

Looking at a receiver either later in the first round or or on day two and maybe getting multiple receivers at that I think that when you if that’s an option if if Hollywood wants to stay here and they can make it work that can also get you by I think what we’ve seen

For a year and you continue to add more pieces but then you’re really able to justify drafting an offensive lineman or a pass rushia early well you look at the Cardinals list of unrestricted free agents to be and I’ll be honest maybe it’s because I’m a Hollywood Brown guy

But I’m with you on that Danny of all the names there I looked at his first and I said you know what especially if it’s a one-year Pro it deal bring him back his season on film was so much better than in the Box Score we’ve heard

Jonathan Ganon say more than once that when I was a defensive coordinator a guy like Hollywood Brown really scared me because he has that topend Elite Speed who can stretch that defense just having the threat of that guy out there changes coverage schemes and especially if he’s

A number two if you added to Marvin Harrison Jr now Hollywood Brown is a two and Michael Wilson is your three you know okay I mean you saw what Kyler did down the stretch with a far lesser crew of receivers and without knowing exactly what they’re thinking r del Moore at

This point other names on this list I know we threw this list at Kyle vanen Bosch he immediately started with the defensive lineman LJ Kier Carlos Watkins we saw so little of those guys this year but when they played they were effective Cardinals have a serious need in the

Defensive line room obviously Lecky fotu has been a solid guy I threw out there an Hamilton you’re really thin in the cornerback room and you know look to me Antonio Hamilton is a perfect third or fourth corner and he’s versatile he can play outside he can play inside he has

The size you can put him on a tight end he’s over six foot tall uh and he’s that veteran presence in that room I don’t know what names jump out to you when you look at the unrestricted free agents I mean to me those you you’ve probably hit

On the guys that would catch my attention I mean the only other person Blake gilin the punter I thought was pretty solid obviously not only kicking the ball but I thought he got better as a holder um you know I don’t know what direction you want to go with that

Position it’s kind of a a weird kind of situation but I would think that that would be a possibility of wanting to keep some stability there because the Long Snapper Aon Brewer is also a free agent and you know that young kid Matt henro who’s was on IR all year there was

A reason they kept him on IR all year and I did not realize that he was on IR all year yeah he got he he hurt his back in preseason they put him on ir and you don’t do that with a long snaper an undrafted Long Snapper unless you have

Some thoughts of the future with him I wouldn’t think I also think tight end Jeff SW I think it’s it’s clear they that Elijah Higgins has the from what we saw at the end of the season the talent to be more of a pass catcher now still

An important piece in that blocking role but depending on sw’s recovery from his injury his knee right Cal it was his C I talked to him he he it wasn’t torn it was it came out it was best case scenario I mean he’s one of those guys

That this is going to be his injury will be a non-factor in in by by March an important blocking tight end though the question becomes did they see something out of that young kid Travis vocc who they picked up from the Ravens late in the season who’s also a blocking tight

End 66 big dude huge dude huge you know do you try and get a little bit younger I mean Jeff swams been around now I I think Jeff swam is works as a veteran in the in the locker room but again how many how many tight ends you going to

Keep you’re going to keep four I mean you could do something where you kept four round or you have VOC potentially on the the practice squad or whatever but I mean I think they like Higgins a lot for what he’s turning into receiving wise we already talked about McBride and

So they just need to make sure that they have that one blocking I also wouldn’t be surprised if they keep Josh Woods Josh Woods and Chris Barnes those two linebackers who at some point in the season we’re also calling the defense after Kaiser white went down I wouldn’t be surprised if you

Bring back Josh Woods as as that second middle linebacker and that experience and the leadership and and what he brought to the table he can play special teams I I I don’t know if they’re going to try an upgrade there and that’s also a possibility and see that’s the thing

Is we’ve gotten to know these guys and so many of them fit with they’re all good dudes they they’re good in the locker room but that’s what Jonathan Ganon was collecting in terms of this roster eventually you’re going to need to find guys that do that with a higher Talent level

Overall and in fact I I had a discussion with my youngest son who made the point he’s like okay Dad but like you still need the talent you still need good enough guys to win it it can’t just be about you know having the right attitude

And and that’s the Fine Line they’ve got to walk they’ve got to find guys that fit with Jonathan Gana wants culture-wise and attitude wise but that can play well the other thing too to keep an eye on which is a different than the free agency list there because you’d obviously have to

Give those players different contracts I think there’s a still a handful of players carried over from the previous regime that will be here for training camp because you need bodies that I still don’t think we’ll be here at the next 53 man roster cut and immediately

Person that jumps to my mind is outside linebacker cam Thomas who has a healthy scratch the final two maybe three games of the season that’s a name to me where not a free agent still on this team doesn’t seem like the cards are going to

Turn up in his favor of here for the Long Haul and along those lines all the guys we’re just talking about again you’re going to resign them probably before free agency starts in Earnest if you’re going to keep them not all of them some of them will realize okay the

Market’s not there I’m going to come back but just because and then but then you’ll have a draft and then that’ll impact what what other positions they might play and then you have to go through training camp so just because they resign a guy it’s not it’s not like okay yeah we

Want you on our team next year necessarily they’re still going to have to fight away on I know you wrote an article on this the Futures deals that that just guarantees the players contracts through the offseason correct yeah I all all a Futures Contract means is they they’ve committed to a team for

The next season so like if a team a playoff team wanted to come get them now they’re off the market so the player is basically saying I’d rather guarantee that I have a team this off season than sit home on my couch hoping a playoff team would want me look I’m going to

Take out my crystal football I’m going to give you a forecast on cam Thomas you ready ready for this one what if we’re not Paul he had a body analysis Darren it’s rhetorical question last off season and they said he could easily put on 25 to 30 pounds his brother’s a d lineman

His dad was a lineman so even though though I think to some degree the previous regime tried to make him an outside linebacker they did is that really his future and if he doesn’t have a future at outside linebacker based on the fact that he was a healthy scratch the last

Few games then maybe he does go that route gets in there with Buddy Morris and all of a sudden he puts on 25 good pounds which he supposedly can do and then all of a sudden here you go as a five technique I that’s definitely possible I remember having conversations

With people about like okay you you had Zack Allen he could be Zack Allen now I don’t know if that could pay off and that’s very possible and by the way you need D Lyman oh yeah you’re in serious need for numbers at that position right

So we’ll see yeah I I that that is a good option he’s still here under contract I’m just not sure that that’s when you’re talking about Edge rushers it doesn’t seem like if you’re reading the tea leaves doesn’t seem like he’s one of those pieces in the future are we

Ready to speculate about zavin Collins in the fifth year option or is that for another addition of cardinals underground brought you by Pacific office autom they don’t have to do it till May we probably should put that off for now okay all right that’s just me I’m just saying that the latest update

Is of the last four drafts 32 picks eight remain with the Arizona Cardinals eight out of 32 over the last four drafts and to your point earlier Danny I think that number is probably going down by the time well lucky fotu is one of them he’s the last guy from the 2020

Draft and he’s a free agent so we’ll see what happens there it is interesting that zav Collins was rated by Pro Football Focus as the best defender on the Cardinals who was zavin was yeah he had the best grade from Pro Football Focus take that what it for what it’s

Did he not play the most snaps on defense well maybe not because they had the rotation but he was the one guy who started every game I think it what it was that was a stat by the way the Cardinals had the third youngest roster by the end of the season in the

NFL they played the second toughest schedule in 2023 when you go back and recalculate everyone’s win loss records and 12 teams finished with 10 or more wins double digits and wins and the Cardinals played eight of the 12 think about that and then think about for the first time the Cardinals went

Oer in the division first time since the new alignment 2002 the NFC West Cardinals went 0 and six and the Rams ended up with the second youngest roster in the NFL by the end of the season W seven of the last eight obviously a playoff team Seahawks played even more

Rookies than the Cardinals were’re the only team to play more rookies than the Cardinals this year and obviously they’re GNA have a head coaching change what’s going to happen in Seattle how do you feel about P Carol Le and Paul well probably going to an advisor okay here we go here comes the

Monologue no I’m going to miss the guy I’m going to miss him I mean come on Coach double rainbow having a lot of fun watching him warm up his arm throwing more pregame tosses than Zach gallon there he is getting the old noodle loose and ready you know everything’s organic

And antioxidant and all this stuff going on the pure way I mean look you can build a culture there’s no doubt about it but they also were straddling that line like a Mike Tomlin yeah they’re right there they’re not drafting high enough to get any change game changer at

Quarterback to what degree has a team tuned him out the defense his calling card his side of the ball not good for two straight years I mean not good at all like among the League’s worst at stopping the run and going into that season finale if you went back over

The last month of Seahawks football he was at a loss to explain how bad the run defense was like it was no comprendo for Pete Carroll and I think at that point management decided he doesn’t look like he has any answers going forward he’s out of answers he’s out of a job that

Was my take on what happened up there I mean again like I said earlier there just comes a time when it kind of Peters out and and it’s time to move on and and I think that’s what happened with Bill bich obviously Tom Brady mattered Russell Wilson in his

Prime and the legion of boom mattered to Pete Carol obviously it’s it’s just like players it’s it’s rare that coaches are going to get to dictate how they walk out the door well in certain coaches or great fit with certain rosters that legion of boom with all those strong

Personalities and a locker room that policed itself Pete Carol was the perfect head coach for that now if you’re going to bring in a rookie quarterback remember Gino Smith is on a glorified one-year deal he easily they can cut bait from Gino Smith this off season and there aren’t that many

Ramifications so you know I’m curious I think there’s not only going to be a new head coach but there’s gonna be a new quarterback in Seattle the Cardinals will be dealing with Drew lock m stop who was the team that um just it was Tampa just dealt with 82 million

Dollar of dead cap space this season this season was supposed to be their reset and they’re they they want to play but guess what look at their division well and that’s why the Cardinals are argu arguably going to be in the toughest division in the NFL again next

Year I think the NFC West will be back to that status next year as the toughest division in the league Le and so Danny I know I’ve said it at Naim at this point you got to get to the quarterback but you also have to figure out the division

If you’re Jonathan Ganon absolutely especially if if San Francisco is able to continue the way they’ve been playing and seeing what we saw from the Rams and what was supposed to be more of a transition year for them and and what they were able to accomplish and do they

Have a first- round pick this year La yes they do do wow they’re back well for now they’re back to first round pick in the draft I and then if Seattle’s able to turn things around I mean you’re right the Cardinals need to be competitive within division because that

That’s going to be a tough way to get to the playoffs you know it’s not like you’re playing like against the Panthers or the bucks or the Saints right like you’re not in the NFC South where you can get by on maybe eight wins and and be in the playoff hunt whereas like

Seattle was able to do that but they weren’t going to win the NFC West with that yeah I mean you beat Dallas beat Pittsburgh you beat Philadelphia three playoff teams but the two Rams games were lopsided two Niners games somewhat competitive and then in the fourth quarter got sideways both games so yeah

That’s your task as a coaching staff I think is to try and get up to speed with the rest of the division now which brings us to uh speaking of opponents uh you did play Houston and CJ strout it’s come full circle to Mr CJ strout in Houston and what he did didn’t

I was thinking to myself when they showed the graphic that he threw only he’s thrown only five picks all year as a rookie quarterback yeah and three of them were against the Cardinals I’m like what that because there’s the old pton Manning joke pton Manning loves to joke

With rookie quarterbacks hey feel free Bud to break my record because as a rookie pton Manning still holds the interception record as a rookie quarterback I think it’s 27 maybe 29 picks his rookie year and that was a Hall of Famer pton Manning and CJ Stout

Has five and it’s not like he’s captain checkdown no that dude has a downfield passing game always thrown to the second and third level in the in the mailbag that posted this week somebody asked me the original question was of the playoff quarterbacks who would you trade Kyler Murray for and who

Would you not now I’m not I’m not going there but I was willing to to from my own power rankings do the playoff quarterbacks and as I’m doing these I’m realizing I think I put stad four or five and I’m thinking I’m surprised I have him that high but every time I’ve

Seen him he’s been fantastic even against the Cardinals when he threw three picks he was pretty damn good and that that hurts it’s impressive for somebody who Roots against Ohio State so fervently it’s impressive what de Ryan has done in his first year there and and what Houston has done to rebuild and

Shift their own culture and everything they’ve done in Houston it’s incredibly impressive what CJ strad has done in his rookie year it sucks as a Cardinals fan that’s for sure of all rookie quarterbacks to cheer for right because rookie quarterbacks typically don’t play this well and when their first round

Draft pick is yours right think about we were we were saying at the beginning of the season of okay well let’s look at Houston like that’s probably going to be a top two top three pick from them and now look and right so because from 2020

To 2022 they had the lowest combined win percentage of any NFL team over that three-year span when it comes to that trade if you want to be upset the Cardinals didn’t draft Will Anderson I’m willing to you can have that argument because there were plenty of people that

Were saying that in in the moment they should be taking Will Anderson they shouldn’t be making this trade but don’t come at me and say they shouldn’t have made the trade because look what happened to that first round pick nobody thought that this was going to happen

Nobody and not the Cardinals either I’m sure so it it David terer had to clean house in Carolina because all those experts got it wrong yeah they took the wrong quarterback in Bryce young it looks like it it does look like it now I I don’t know that that ended up being a

Mess too and I you know you wonder about if if Bryce young was coached by Bobby sloak instead of Frank reiken and that maybe you know maybe maybe it changes up but yeah and that’s that’s the thing going back to the other thing when you were talking about Suggs and the guy in

The mailbag it was complaining about how they didn’t take sugs I’m like okay like bottom line because he his point is you don’t trade out of that you take a great player and you don’t trade down because that’s where Hall of Famers come from is

The higher and and I’m sure if you break down the hall of famers that yes of course most of them are going to be first round picks or high picks however if you look at sheer numbers and volume there’s still way more first round picks that don’t ever come close

To the Hall of Fame then do and and you can still make a mistake in the top five as we see on a yearly basis by the way put Houston under that category heading we mentioned earlier if you get the head coach and the quarterback right you can

Mask a lot of other deficiencies on your team you get demo Ryan you get CJ Stroud all of a sudden sort of like the Cardinals down the stretch all of a sudden Jonathan Ganon and Kyler Murray he’s playing at that level you can go out there with a bunch of third and four

String receivers and still make it happen so and and and demo Ryan is another one of those Dan Campbell Jonathan Ganon types right he’s kind of like half coach half player just the way he relates in the sideline and the energy at least that’s what the announcers were saying during the

Broadcast they been talking to a lot of the Texans players they’re like it’s almost like he’s a team captain again Dem o Ryan the longtime linebacker of the Texans so by the way I’m intrigued by your uh mailbag what was the uh the question about if you were to trade

Kyler who would you be willing to trade him for was that the question yeah the original question was if you out of the playoff quarterbacks out of the 14 playoff quarterbacks who would you be willing to trade Kyler for and who would you not be willing to trade Kyler for

Because I have a u good friend of mine who’s a pathological Cowboys fan and there was a Tex string and one of my uh other buddies decided to trigger him at the end of that loss hey uh jera ain’t waiting around for a rookie quarterback he’s too old

Dak ain’t the guy you think jera calls up Monty aen for and says bring Kyler back to Texas Hershel Walker trade here we go you think there’s I have heard that before actually why why would if you’re the Cardinals though why would you do that right now because they pay your

Price which is obscene okay and and who’s your quarterback you’re sitting there at number four maybe you like M Michael penx bone so at the best you’re getting the third best quarterback in this draft I and you reset the rookie contract you go remember Kyler’s cap number goes from

Absolutely to million have and you don’t know and if you get Bryce young it doesn’t matter what the the princely price that you might get of draft picks we can go back to the hersel Walker trade yeah that was incredibly one-sided yes the Cowboys won but if you look at a

Lot of those half of those draft picks were just guys so do you think Kyler showed enough proved enough to this new set of decision makers that they do truly know he’s the guy I do I do yes come you doubt that no I I I oh Darren’s getting

Heated over here I’m I’m not getting heated and I said this on the air before a month ago I wasn’t so sure based on the last three halves of football that went a long way towards solidifying his future and you can say what you want to say

Picking four instead of one or two makes a difference especially for a quarterback as Chicago if they were picking four and eight instead of one and eight I bet you Justin Fields is their quarterback who would it be now Darren we’ll just have to see on that Danny oh man Lincoln Riley in

Dallas bill bich in Dallas Lincoln Riley to Dallas you guys are not saying things that I did not hear from my dad after that cowboy loss I was talking him off a leg should we have your dad on the on the podcast can we work that outs

Yeah it’s so okay all right any uh how about them Cowboys any other unfinished business here um else you want to say Jordan love what’s going on with Jordan love are you kidding me I mean was there anything more look we knew CJ Stroud because we saw CJ Stroud yeah was there

Anything did that last touch oh I think it was his last touchdown I think it was the little sidearm whip when they were down at the 10 yard line or whatever it was that was freaking amazing I mean at that point it was what 4816 right well

It was I it was the last touchdown if it was the last touchdown it would have been 41 whatever but by the way did you see the Tamp Bay Buccaneers troll the Philadelphia Eagles with their tweet by Eagles by yeah that’s not nice and then

The New York Post piled on with fly or cry Eagle cry there’s that and it’s all started actually with Trey McBride when he left the field in Philadelphia second last game of the year he was flapping his arms and screaming fly cardinals fly when when you look going back to the

Packers real quick it is amazing how exactly the same Favre to Rogers Rogers to love seems to be playing out Favre when they drafted Rogers the fan base was like why would you piss off Brett Favre Brett Favre had all the fans behind him and then at the end when they

They was time to move on he started ruining that a little bit then when he went on to do other do other things and Rogers played well Brett farre became Public Enemy Number One in Green Bay and what’s happening now like everybody is like how could you screw with Rogers and

Now that it looks like love can play and Rogers is Aaron Rogers it looks looks like the exact same thing I hope this is appropriate to say on a podcast I saw a tweet that said as long as Jordan love doesn’t Rob people of welfare money or

Become a conspiracy theorist he will be a legend in Green Bay for life and I just thought that was hysterical maybe maybe just spending all that time in Green Bay just turns a guy not only is he not that guy that former quarterback did you see where he helped the motorist

On the side of the road right and then she took a selfie with him out of a snow I’m going to tell you a story though this is people can change too I have a I have a friend who lives in Green Bay who did a lot of stuff with Aaron Rogers and

Aaron roders when his one of his children were born they were they had been doing a radio show Aaron Rogers showed up by himself to the hospital with flowers for his wife wow just to say thank you now I don’t think that I don’t think today’s Aaron Rogers does that

But people people can change so we we’ll see where Jordan love is in 15 years I will say one of the best things out of this weekend with playoffs was seeing the Bills fans shovel the snow at the stadium and then they say you know the

Bills in NFL say you know what it’s a free-for-all wherever you can find a spot to sit and and fans are drudging through was high end it was just general seating yes and then I love the fans that didn’t even try to get rid of the

SN they were just like lying back on the seats on this like it just I just feel like that fan base is incredible and to do that I’m sure it’s just such a such a cool memory to say that you help shovel the snow and then you’re going through

That experience now Kansas City I don’t know if that weather is worth sitting out and watching a game for with all the wind and everything but if Buffalo if it’s more just cold and you’re able to safely get there I just I loved seeing that from the fan base it it kind of

Looked fun I mean I’m glad don’t deal with that winter I want to be clear about that Kansas City the the video on on uh that was circulating on social media of the guy going into the refrigerator to pick out the ice and having it freeze after it came out of

The refrigerator like you were putting it in the refrigerator to keep it freeze so it wouldn’t freeze as soon as you took it out did you see the people that were drinking beers and it would be open and the beer would come out and then it would freeze so you couldn’t even drink

What was left in your beer crazy I just like the Buffalo they and they just put the beer right in the snowbank next to their seat in Buffalo that was uh you know by the way I think this weekend’s games served as um reinforcement as to why sideline

Reporters are so vital to I was thinking about you Paul well we got some good info out of it it was the radio sideline reporter because it couldn’t see the game didn’t have peacock and I’m I’m stuck out in the garage replacing the spark plugs and a 25-year-old rig with

My 17-year-old and we’re out there listening to the the game and the sideline reporter she came on and said that Patrick Mahomes has his own personal heat Locker on the sideline for his helmet not just putting on the high top top the bench you know the post with

The heater unit he has his own locker so why did it break that’s that was the question that’s why it came up not only did it break but he has his own personal heat Locker for it and then she went into she did some research she said did

You know the heat bench was invented in Green Bay in 1961 the Packers actually commissioned a local like heating hbac company and they created it and gave it to the Packers never licensed it never trademarked it never asked for any money gave it to the Packers and then like the

NFL licensed it no I was thinking about you the cold weather of like oh my gosh poor Paul if he had be down there on the sideline cuz I sure no I wouldn’t have been and then Laura Oakman reported Jason Kelce who uh congrats on a spectacular right all pro career yeah

Jason Kelce apparently told Laura Oakman that he had a specific three-word catchphrase that he would tell himself during each tush I enjoyed this what was it bleep my life snap it bleep my life snap the ball and then just lunge forward and be at the bottom of that mass

Humanity oh my no Jason Kelce what happens to the the brotherly show the tush doesn’t get pushed anymore I mean if not I mean the tush push I mean prematurely retired him by at least three years if it wasn’t for the tush push you probably would have played 20

Come on yeah but he got a Super Bowl ring yeah so uh uh so anyway yeah I thought the uh you know the sideline reporters were vital to the NFL broadcast over the weekend so there you go um CJ strad really is the exploitive uh here on this uh podcast until next next

Season we can appreciate CJ strout but uh as we approach the draft not so much and that’ll do it for this edition of cardinal underground brought to you by Pacific office automation