We sit down with Dave Schwartz, passionate collector and host of The Shallow End podcast to talk about his approach of hobbying in the “shallow end”, promoting all hobby podcasts, why he started his own, the feeling after you land a card that was difficult to acquire, the value of cards beyond the money and more so join us live and bring your questions and comments as they will be in play.
Leighton Sheldon of Just Collect and Vintage Breaks joins for the “Vintage Spotlight” segment!
Saturday January 13 @ 7:00pm PST / 8:00pm MST / 9:00pm CST / 10:00pm EST
#sportscards #thehobby #shallowend
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Sports cards and we live now welcome to another episode of sports cards live with your host Jeremy Lee all right everybody Welcome to episode number 212 of sports cards live it is Saturday night January the 13th 2024 my name is Jeremy Lee I would like to thank everyone who tuned in last week for our episode with Rex morgart we talked about unopened and sealed packs
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Tonight your comments and your questions are in play Let’s get to it tonight’s guest started in the Hobby in 1983 at the age of nine when he started buying packs of Tops baseball cards which to this day is still his favorite design and not a bad one I like it too he took
A break from 1990 all the way until the pandemic in 2020 and he started his podcast in June of last year his favorite players of all time are Willie McGee Ricky Henderson Mark Maguire Barry Bonds and Bob Sanders and his favorite teams of all time are the St Louis
Cardinals Las Vegas Raiders and the Iowa Hawkeyes he’s originally from St Louis Missouri currently hailing from Iowa City Iowa let’s bring him out Dave Schwarz welcome to sports cards live Dave how are you doing tonight good Jeremy it’s great to see you I’m a big fan of the show your professionalism
Your Enthusiasm and I’m excited to talk to you and your guest tonight you and your audience tonight well thanks Dave I am enthused to have you on I’ve told you I’ve been looking forward to this I’ve been listening to your podcast since it started and the way that I found out
About you Dave was because you you’ve been doing a service to the Hobby on Instagram uh it’s got to be close to a year now I’m guessing where really every morning uh when when you get up you actually go out there and you you gather all the podcasts that dropped
In the Hobby and you put a you do a story post on your Instagram saying here are the hobby podcasts that have been dropped in the last 24 hours or so uh you include mine on there you include many more and um I I got to tell you I
Found a few podcasts that way I think I’ve told you about a few podcasts to add to the list you have a website where you where you share all the different podcast options and some YouTube channels as well I want to start I want to hear your hobby history but I got to
Start by asking you this Dave what made you start doing that in the first place sure so I have a fairly long commute to work each day it’s about I spent about two two half to three hours a day in the car and so I was already into the hobby
For quite a while at that point really enjoying content that’s how I learned the hobby when I got back into it because the time when I left the first time it was just cardboard no grading no drama except for the you know some of the old school dealers who would you
Know rip off the kids but otherwise there was really no sorts of drama so podcast really helped me understand what I was doing not so much YouTube because I wouldn’t just sit down on the couch and watch it but in the car I was captive I listened to to it but every
Now and then a podcast would just sort of drift off into the atmosphere it would be gone and made me think that people like I mean so many of the podcasters out there are just doing it because they enjoy it it’s a hobby and the best kind of feedback we can give
Them is our time our ears our attention because they’re not making any money on it and if somebody feels like they’re wasting their time like they’re talking to nobody of course they’re going to stop and of course they’re going to go away so sort of two reasons why I did it
One was sort of selfish because I didn’t want people to keep going away I needed that company on my commute but also just as a way of trying to say thank you as a way of trying to say that there are people out here who are listening to you
There are people out here who are trying to support what you’re doing and the least that I could do is take three minutes every morning and jump on to Instagram which is free and just say hey here are two or five or 10 hobby podcasts that have been updated over the
Last 24 hours yeah I got to tell you when I first saw saw you do that and you had sports cards live on there I was very flattered and very very grateful and uh I still am I think it’s a wonderful thing that you do so you know
Everybody if you’re watching this and you don’t know Dave Schwarz you don’t know Iowa Dave the shallow end podcast you have to be following him on Instagram and uh and then you can be uh brought up to speed every day on what podcasts have dropped you’ll maybe
You’ll find some new ones as well and then you started your own podcast which I think was maybe inevitable before we get into that though let’s just bit about your history I mentioned in the intro that you got into the Hobby in 1990 uh you took a break though for a
While and then I said you didn’t come back until the pandemic but that was a bit of a white lie you you you dipped your toes back in in 2003 so just take us quickly through that progression sure so I got in in 83 and I got out in 90
And I got I don’t remember why I got in other than I’ve always been a baseball fan always been a sports card fan a collector of things right and in ‘ 83 I just know that’s when I started collecting and I love it helped that it was such a gorgeous design on Tops
Baseball that year growing up in a town like St Louis where baseball is a religion that’s the those are the types of cards that I wanted to collect that year plus my favorite player growing up at that youngest age was Willie McGee everyone thinks that when you’re from St
Louis and you’re from that era that it’s aie Smith but he was more like the national guy if you were from St Louis you knew that the guy was Willie McGee and so his rookie card was in 83 always chased it never got it and just collected straight through to 90 and you
Know had rows and rows and boxes of boxes full of Commons and some pretty good cards as well you know good cards for that era um 1990 I don’t think it’s a coincidence that’s when I turned 16 and got a car uh got a a job that you
Know required things like I could not put gas in my car that sort of thing and I just sort of got distracted I know that I I I’m pretty sure 99 1990 is when I got out because the last big chase card that I remember were Frank Thomas rookies and so those were
1990 and it just kind of moved on then I went to college and grad school and that sort of thing and then in 2003 I dabbled a little bit because that was when I started to discover eBay and I didn’t discover eBay for for cards I discovered eBay for knickknacks and
Other things and big boxes of used golf balls because the time I was playing golf and and so I can get cheap there and I stumbled across cards again and realized that I never stopped enjoying them I just stopped being a part of the hobby because other parts of life took
Over and so I actually bought a couple of cards while I was in that era of 2003 uh one uh was uh um a 94 A-Rod SP foil uh bought it raw and I’d never seen cards that were that shiny before I wasn’t aware of refractors I I didn’t it
Is clear that cards had taken a technological leap right I was fascinated but then also vintage and so um I bought like a 68 or a 69 pet Rose I I I like pet Rose when I was growing up as well um so I bought one of those raw
Neither one cost me a whole lot of money I think maybe the A-Rod was 15 20 bucks and that felt like too much but nonetheless that was it I was gone again 205 again life takes over right I get married in 2000 no I’m sorry got sorry
Honey got married in 2002 kid comes along in 2005 first one first of three 2007 comes another kid um 2010 comes kid number three and while we’re I don’t know in the throws of raising kids I again get on eBay and this time I become enamored this is around 2011 2012 become
Really enamored with the 53 top Satchel Page thinking okay if I’m going to get back in this is going to be the card that I want but nonetheless it just wasn’t the right time you know when you’ve got three kids who are you know age five or under there are other places
That you need to be putting your money when that’s not your career like if you’re not going to be flipping if you’re not going to be opening a shop if you’re not going to be at shows this is not the time to be waiting back into that area but finally you know Co
Happens and um one weekend go back to St Louis where my dad still lives and my parents they never touched my cards while I was gone for two and a half to three decades they never bothered them they were still in the right side of my childhood room in the closet in the
Exact same order in the exact same Stacks as where I had left them almost 30 years before and so I went back and I thought maybe you I knew that cards were picking up steam you know there were there were articles on them about ESPN
It was sort of so was back into my brain and I probably had about 30 to 40,000 cards and we drove down there visited my dad and on the way back loaded them all up into the the back of our car and drove back and sold most of them um
Recycled a bunch of 1987 88 tops cardboard that wouldn’t even be worth comc right end up recycling a bunch um and graded about 12 and so much of my good fortune in this hobby since I’ve been back has been luck and by pure luck
I send about 12 to 15 cards to PSA right before the glut happened right before and so I got them back I know not that long 68 weeks it was great right and I sold them off and I couldn’t believe how much they were going for at this point
Right s start this was what became the boom I didn’t know that I just thought hey what a great Hobby and I’m selling cards off like crazy I sell them all off except for a couple that I knew wouldn’t get anything that belonged to Old family
That sort of thing like my my dad’s old 57 red shandies I’m not going to sell that right um but the last card of mine from my childhood that I did not sell was the 1991 won Michael Jordan Upper Deck the baseball card where he’s wearing the White Sox uniform it’s like
His baseball uh xrc is what I like to call it and I got a PSA 10 on it so we have now I have a Michael Jordan PSA 10 card during the boom I thought I said to my wife you wife I just sell this one
But keep the funds just to kind of get back involved and she like I don’t care she’s supportive she go sure go ahead because up until that point so much of what I had sold went to grocery money and other bills and it was great so she
Didn’t care if I kept one the card ended up selling for 7800 right um and so there we go that was my treasure chest and the first card I bought when I was back into the hobby was an Anthony Edwards prism base rookie um probably for about five times
What it would cost now um but I was back in and so from that moment on I’ve been back in the hobby all right well yeah that that’s that’s a it’s a it’s a nice uh timeline and the the one thing I want to go back
You said this a few minutes ago now was you know Willie McGee was your favorite player to collect 83 tops and I’m thinking to myself I would have loved to be in the schoolyard with you because I could have traded you my William McGee for Tony gwyns and Ryan sandberg’s and
Wade bogs and I might have come out a little a little bit ahead were you also chasing those key rookie cards back then or did you didn’t even know who they were back then not right away but pretty soon I I got pretty involved I subscribed to Becket we had in St Louis
There were three or four or five card shops that were 15 minutes away that my parents would drive me to on the weekends and so I got pretty involved with it so when I went back and got the collection out of my dad’s house in 2020
Cards I had kept a lot of my cards already in top loader so I was I was already preserving them and so there were yeah there were bogs there were M there were like you said sandberg’s and Tony gwyns and conos and Maguire and 74 Dave winfields uh those types of cards
Up through the 89 Ken Griffey Jr and some Frank Thomas and so yeah I recognize I even back then I sort of had on the brain that old thinking of oh man this I’m going to be rich someday right and so I definitely pursued cards that I perceived would be worth something um
Kirby Pucket Eric Davis those types of players and I and I kept them thankfully I kept them in top loaders and I only got maybe two or three PSA 10s out of those 15 cars that I would submit 30 years later but yeah I’m glad I’m still
Grateful that I had the sense you know three decades ago to S to uh put them I was one of those I was one of those rare kids in the 80s also that kept my car they were my they were my precious belongings and I kept them in as good a
Condition as I could before sleeves and top loaders and you know just nice and square in a box in the on the floor in in my closet good memories Dave we we have some similar history there let’s say hello to We Got Jake doll with us Jake what is going on 86 Collectibles
Thank God it’s Saturday there we go Contender that comment is just just too funny JP says yeah good warming up down there yeah um it is cold here and I did get an alert that there could be power outages here in Calgary uh tonight so hopefully I don’t get kicked off the
Show Todd McDonald what is going on Dan’s vintage looking forward to learning some more budget ideas peeps good evening cardboard Corner yes JP hopefully no Alberta power outage hello to Joe sacko Mike is in the house Contender says Ricky Henderson stealing record will never ever be broken Bob
Hosta we’re going to be talking about Bob because he is your most recent guest on your podcast an episode I really enjoyed we’ll be talking about that soon Bob welcome to the show Chris olivo welcome to the show as well diversity for my collection yes sir mookie chillson says attention is a valuable
Commodity both these guys worthy of my time thank you mookie chillson uh he said that when he was talking about when when you were talking about Dave how you know you’re people are listening to podcasts and consuming content good evening Professor Tom Newman good to see
You Jeff McMahon good to see you H Contender out like listen here this question is an episode all in of itself but I’m gonna ask you Dave how do you define vintage cards where is the cut off for you if you have a kind of quick
Answer to that I just think 1979 1980 right around there and that’s not my idea I think Baseball Card Collector Mike from from I forget the name of his show but he takes it from end of World War II so about 48 through 79 and that’s
Good enough for me yeah I go till 89 personally we can have a we can have a chat offline I’ll try and bring you over to the dark side uh on that one for sure Chris C good evening to 90s collector what’s happening Brett s good evening
Jeremy Mr fowl five ball thank you for being here yes good day jent and hobby Champs is here all right so Dave let’s talk about your we’re going to talk about more what you collect a little bit later but I want to talk about your podcast because with guys with with Dave Schwarz
With Iowa Dave sports cards we can get so much ideas and thoughts out of him by talking about the episodes that he’s done because you have first of all his podcast it’s must listen I feel it’s must listen for anybody because whether you whether you Hobby in the shallow end
Or are you Hobby in the middle or the Deep or the extreme deep end there are some Concepts that come out of his episodes that you can apply to any price point any really really any any approach so I want to talk about it Dave and um
You know I want to first talk about how did you start what was the I mean just you were telling everybody about all the all the other podcasts out there in the Hobby and then you started and I was really happy to see that you were going
To start now we’re going to get to hear the voice behind the account learn who is Iowa Dave but tell exactly like what was that aha moment when and why did you start and um and what kind of uh who did you who were you encouraged by sure so I actually had
A podcast briefly not sports related around 2012 2013 that was related to my work and it only lasted 20 episodes or so so I had some small bit of experience in the appreciation of podcasts last April or May or so right after so last March is when I started every
Morning putting the that list out there on Instagram sometime around April May uh I got an instant message over Instagram from Rob Gerard and he was asking me something sort of innocent about you know what do you actually listen to right what so what kind of podcasts are
You into and why and I think he thought I was going to give him short little list and a short little answer in that was going to be it and instead I think I probably made him regret the question that I sort of joke that way because I
Sent him a book back right multiple multiple messages saying here are four or five things that I look for here’s why I think that they’re important and I was sort of going back on my previous history of doing this things that I listened to on my own things that I like
That I didn’t like things that were helpful in this hobby things that were not what turned me off when turned me on and he writes back one sentence do you want a podcast and then we started talking a little bit my first response was no I don’t you know I I don’t know
How mine would be any different or any better than anyone else’s I listen to yours I listen to there was some probably about half dozen others that I would listen to religiously and then some others that I would just supplement based on topic right and then I said
Well let me get back to you um you know let me think about it let me see if there’s something that I could do that would be different or that would be helpful or that there’ be some sort of a niche that I could feel but that would
Also would feel organic to me because I don’t want to force something right um and then about a week later as I’m driving into work where I do all my thinking it just sort of popped into my head that there aren’t a whole lot of podcasts up there that Focus explicitly
On collectors like myself who are kind of like low-end collectors and you know I might have a couple of cards at the time that were maybe three figures but most of the time if a card was getting over 40 bucks I had to really think about whether this
Is a purchase that I wanted to make or needed to make and I didn’t know if this was going to be like a long-term successful type of podcast I don’t know how one even determines the word successful but I thought that’s it um I’m in the shallow end and I right away
Had the title and I messaged him and I said okay um here’s my idea a piece about the shallow end called the shallow end for collectors who are on a budget and he wrote back and said sounds great I love it maybe in about a month after
You’ve had some time to develop some stuff do a test last episode let’s do it the rest is history so I’m sorry why was it let’s do it why did I say oh why oh thank you yes of course because he was looking to expand so you know he was part of the
That group called The Wolfpack so the Wolfpack was him cousins Collectibles the cross town cardboard guys um uh Big Ken from sports card lessons and some other guy named Dave who I how I don’t know who does not have a podcast and he wanted to sort of create some affiliate
Shows on the on the Wolfpack Network so he had his Show Ken had his show the other guys had their shows and he brought in um uh collect who you collect what you love and brought in me to do these sort of new shows and I think he
Was going to bring in other shows past that but that just sort of fell through um but Erica from collect what you love and I did shows she did hers on a limited run um I think four to eight episodes and mine just sort of kept going and although his dream of um
Almost a network of podcasts didn’t happen mine never ended and even after his troubles came and went um I took my podcast off the Wolfpack Network and have been doing it myself ever since got it okay I I was just curious about that so that that makes that makes okay so
Let’s get into uh to some of the uh some of the topics that you’ve gotten into because again this is where that there’s good stuff so I want to talk about an episode you did with um with Paul hickey and his his his podcast is called sports
Card strategy he’s um as you mentioned in your episode with him he is all about sports cards as a way to make money and a lot of people don’t like that approach and a lot of people you know but you had a great episode with him um and uh I
Just want to get your thoughts on that on that episode with Paul and sort of uh you know some of the some of the key the key points the key ideas is that came out of that for you because I I do I know your intro to that episode you are
Very excited about this episode it was you thought it was really good and I want to get from you what were some of the key takeaways you had absolutely and so Paul hickey has become a friend of mine in the Hobby and you know they talk about Opposites Attract he’s somebody
Who is all about making money in the hobby I’m all about just trying to have fun in the hobby but what I love so much about Paul is that there’s nothing fake about him he’s not an investor who’s going to say okay I’m going going to embed myself with the collectors now and
Pretend that I’m a collector he comes right out and says no I’m here to make some money here’s I’m going to help you but I want to bring someone different onto the show and so we had talked we had met at National last year we had
Talked online as well and so we just talked about things that we should be thinking about even if we are just collectors such as like the right time of the year to sell right time of a season to sell when not to sell but the thing that really blew me away the thing
About that episode that almost took my my breath away is when he said as you think as you start thinking about collecting as you have this card that you really want ask yourself once you’ve got it then what and it’s just two words right it’s then what or now what and I
Didn’t know how to answer him but I had felt that before this idea of this Chase like you’re going after this card you’ve got to have this card right and then you finally get it and you’re like all right well got it yeah on to the next one
Right um on to the next so and it a lot of times the interviews I I hope other people will take something from it and they can help you know influence their collecting shape their Hobby in some way but that one really kind of wrecked me
For a couple of weeks where I I actually didn’t buy for a couple of weeks because I was so much in my head about it like okay well I really want to get this Otani or I want to get this Bo Jackson but then what does that mean once I do
And should I even collect anything should I just quit the hobby because what does it matter if the whole goal is to get a card and then once you get it you’re fine and you move on to the next card right what’s the point and because of that it
Really forced me to take a closer look at my collection to not buy so spontaneously although I still do I mean impulse is part of this hobby right sometimes we all just hit by and then it comes you’re like oh that was dumb or you get it and you think well that was
Great I’m glad I did that but he did help me become more intentional with what I’m doing and since that moment I’ve been able to to shape my PC in a way that I hadn’t really thought about before and so I it kind of tells me that
Even people who come from the hobby from a different perspective than you do and certainly he and I are on polar opposite sides of what sports Cod are all about but if you just open your mind and listen to somebody who whose philosophy you might not identify with you can
Still learn a lot about yourself yeah yeah I love your open-mindedness to it and I I met Paul at the mint Collective uh whether it was last year the year before really nice really nice guy and like you I do admire that he’s just doing what he’s doing and
He’s uh and he’s plugging plugging away and moving forward with it and and he’s a very nice guy very nice lot lots of energy and he he loves the hobby uh for what it is and for for how he approaches it but I love the then what question now
You did another episode where you talk about the six qu this is your framework that you’ve built for yourself Dave where you have six questions that you ask yourself before you’re about to buy a a cart and we’re not going to go to that episode yet I want but one of those
Questions I think it’s question four is then what so and I think that that is a it’s a really important question to ask because as collectors who are who we can buy car we can online shop anytime we want there there’s no the storees never closed in this hobby
So we we Chase cards we we lust for them we see them they they get listed on a Marketplace we we wait for the final few seconds we make our bids along the away we maybe bid at the end we win the card we wait for it to come finally you have
Your mail date arrives you you go through the process of receiving it and processing it into your collection whatever that looks like for you and then what do you do like do you put it up on the wall I have some cards right there I’ve got about 50 cards on my wall
There I got a few over there few behind me over there that’s just a sample of my collection the rest of them are in a are in boxes and they’re stored away and I look at them every so often but that’s it I don’t I don’t look at them every
Day and you know and just like gaze at them I look at them every so often and the the then what to me the way the way I want to be able to answer that Dave is then what well then I want to make sure that I still love owning it because as
Soon as I fall out of love with owning a card then it moves from the PC into the trader box and now it can be moved one way or another so that’s my then what and there was a question that came into the chat here Contender ask how do you
Guys decide what to keep and what to sell for Your Personal Collection it’s a really good question now for me I kind of make that decision before I buy the card in the first instance but then there’s the second instance where anywhere from you know maybe I get the
Card I don’t it doesn’t look like I thought it would or maybe maybe five 10 15 years ago bu it’s like I don’t love this card anymore so you know the the question how do you decide I think it’s more the question better for me
Contender and for you I want to get your thoughts in a moment is when do you decide so for me before every Big Card show I that I’m set up at I kind of go through the BC and think do I still love these cards once I don’t I take out I
Let them simmer for a few days I go to them again a few days later I make sure I’m still out of love with them and then I will put them in the box that’s going to go to the show with me so it’s it’s a
Then what and a when as well so that’s kind of how I look at it what what did you what about you for your collecting habits for me it’s a feeling right when I when I’m looking at them I don’t have a large collection when I’m looking at a card
And I started thinking about how much can I get for it versus how much I enjoy it I’m start starting to try to train myself to realize okay this might be time for this one and so I’ll sort of set it aside and when I find a card that
I want more and if it’s something that’s going to take a little bit of saving for I will immediately goes back to those cards that just don’t I just don’t have those feelings for anymore it sounds like a relationship doesn’t it it does it does right you know um one card I’m
Going to show I might show later I don’t want to give away right now um but I just got it a couple weeks ago I had sort of lusted after for a while and I on an older podcast I mentioned that I had to sell about two dozen cards to get
It it ended up being closer to 32 33 cards and all the cards that I got rid of were just cards that were just not nothing that I cared about anymore they were cards that I realized I could get back any time that I wanted right they
Were just they were highly graded 1980s iconic type cards right so you know Jose cono those types of C I give those back anytime I want but when I look at it and I start thinking about its value and what it can do for me instead of how
Much I’m enjoying it that’s it it’s already gone I might not I might not have admitted it to myself yet but at that point the card is already gone yeah the the key there is cards you can get back any time I’ve recently gone through the process of you know disposing of
Several cards from my Personal Collection I did I wasn’t originally planning on selling for another 25 years but things happen in life and you make you you know you make decisions on the Fly and it was a very very challenging process for me to go through
These and look at the card and literally what you said do I get a feeling from the card like does it go through my body is it something that if I don’t have this I’m going to be sad about or you know and and some cards you know I’ll be
Sad about about selling off my Patrick W 1986 OPG rookie card but I can get one anytime there’s no shortage of them out there it’s not a rare card so that that’s the SEC number one am I gonna have a negative emotional reaction to selling a card or or taking a card out
Of the PC and number two if that’s the case how challenging will it be to reacquire it down the road and if that if it’s yes I will be emotionally hurt but it won’t be to get it back then it’s okay I can let that one go for the
Short-term needs I’m having and I can buy it back later on when when things kind of you know work themselves out so I think I think it’s really important to to look at cards you can potentially get and this all plays into the then what discussion too right because then what
Well then maybe this is a card you can end up selling if you need to raise money for something else in real life or for other cards down the road and we’ll maybe talk a bit about the whole if you notice you never know it’s always peculiar you never know which ones
You’re going to you’re still going to connect with and which ones you won’t so here I am I’m getting rid of Fred McGriff I’m getting rid of Mark McGuire’s Jose conos but then I come across the Bo Jackson also a very common card but I just couldn’t do it right
There there was something about Bo that I just couldn’t do and and if I rationally or logically tried to think about it I wouldn’t be able to come up with come up with an answer which is why I think it’s important to really listen to those vibes those feelings those
Emotions yeah no for sure for sure okay I want to I want to talk about the Bob hosta episode but first I just want to welcome sports card or sorry non-sport showcases Saturday nights are all right for fighting and Jaye must be UFC welcome to the show non-port showcase Chris C says
Some of the best deals I’ve still found in dollar boxes of card shows if you have the patience there’s no doubt about that Drake’s PC good evening Drake one of the best guys in the hobby as well good to see you Drake Irish Flyers Neil says I’m like Dave shallow and base car
Cards matter no doubt no doubt Chris C agree we all had pre-s all we had pre-s were base cards and that that one little Point comes one of your six questions Dave is and we’re gonna I’m kind of giving away a bit of the later but is if
It’s a rookie card why is that so important when a subsequent card may be nicer and then I’m adding why a rookie cards so important and it’s partially because back in the 80s and 90s you know you really only had one card per year per player you know P per per
Manufacturer especially in the 80s um and uh that plays in to me as to why I am not as why rookie cards don’t matter as much to me as they used to I I think the I think the uh I I think the status of the rookie card is being is being
Eroded slightly by the evolution of the hobby overall but we’ll we’ll get back to that Christy thanks for that Mike Petty says shallow end prevails shallow and prevails uh hobby champ cousins is still around I just caught one of their episodes the other day lapper what is
Going on what is going on Dan says then what display read the so display the card read the back of the card make it part of a set enjoy your cards and great advice there for sure from Dan he says if you can’t enjoy your cards when
They’re in your hand why are you even in the Hobby and like I remember one guy I was talking to years ago Dave I I’d say what do you I’d said what do you do with all these cards they just sit in a box in my clock it and I was I couldn’t
Understand like do you ever look at them because here’s a funny thing Dave too sometimes I will avoid looking at one of my boxes for as long as possible so that when I go to it it’s like I’ve been waiting so long it’s like you know like
The longer you wait to eat the hungrier you get sort of thing I forgot about this card right yeah yeah like I don’t it’s like I almost just want to make it I want to make it last longer I don’t want to get I want to make sure I don’t
Get tired of you know if you look at anything every day you might get tired of it so anyway okay if I could say one thing Dan Dan’s V baseball I completely agree about the back of the card I think the back of the card is the most underrated part they such incredible
Facts or when we were growing up it was just those stats and I would love it when you would get a veteran player in the 80s someone who had begun in the 60s like Nolan Ryan and you had almost get a magnifying glass out just to read all
Those years of stats in the back and I think I learned math that way right learned data that way it’s a fantastic part of cards me me I love the back of cards especially as a kid when there were cartoons and little here’s what here’s what he did in the off season as
For to to earn money right back when back when these guys didn’t train only train in the off season Dan goes on to say cards as art history Nostalgia inherited Nostalgia learning objects Conversation Pieces yeah Dan nail you’re nailing it right there definitely agree with that for sure Mike Petty says I’m
Latki I never fall out of love that’s great I mean that’s that means you’re that tells me that you’re buying only cards that you know you’re going to be able to love for a long time now Neil Irish Flyers collector very important qu question of the night he says Jeremy and
Dave when do we get to the hair care tips topic asking for a fellow folically challenged collector yes Dave you and I could do a podcast on how to manage big hair big big hair Mike says Curt’s Hair Care waack F very good very good Contender says what sport over the next
Five years you both think will have the biggest boost in popularity I mean I don’t know that’s uh that’s a not really a question that that that that I have an answer hockey hockey is just ripe ripe to grow it’s so much fun and exciting um Dave anything to throw out there women’s
Basketball just because of the rise of Caitlyn Clark um otherwise I think we’re just going to see a a rising trajectory for All Sports you know North America Western Europe they cannot get enough of their Sports well said just Legends welcome to the show Larry says I love the 56 kofax
Over the 55 rookie says it’s nicer looking card and that’s objective to me I like I like 55s better than 56s I think they’re a little bit cleaner personally and I love love the kofax rookie in that set but I love that Larry is saying that for me it’s the 56 and
Rookie cards okay let’s just talk about rookie cards for a second here okay Dave rookie cards were we I think we were it was almost in indoctrinated into us as collectors because of the 60s 70s and 80s and when Becket magazine came out and rookie cards became a thing they
Were even labeled as such that those were the cards to get because it’s the oldest card of the player but back then like I said you only have one Sandy kofax card in 1955 you only have one Roberto Clemente you only have one Nolan Ryan card in 68 and he shares it with
Jerry kozman but still it’s his rookie card so that was the only option then in the second year there’s only one card as well nowadays there’s 1,200 rookie cards and then there’s and there’s very few cards you know many fewer in subsequent years unless your name is you know sh Otani or
Mike Trout or cydney Crosby or you know McDavid one of these guys Luca and so forth but I think the rookie card Dave and I want I want to get your thought on this really quick back when there was only one or in the 80s in baseball they
Got Fleer and Don Russ as well and some controversy between extended series and that kind of thing but even even with three rookie cards okay you can have your choice of three and whichever one you want that’s great it’s you don’t have many options nowadays I feel like
The rookie card has been watered down and I know it’s still the darling of the hobby but it’s not the darling for me anymore I much prefer a non RC designated card for the player that I want to card up whether it’s from his
Rookie year or a later year um I like R Y cards rookie year to me is the new r C because I it’s still a rookie year card might not have the RC technical designation but I don’t care it’s still a card that came out of those packs in
The rookie year so I personally while I’ve always been a rookie collector and I still am for cards really up until whatever the mid 2000s let’s say I uh I don’t care I don’t I don’t think I I think rookie cards have lost there for me it’s just they’ve lost their Allure
For me in the last several years um and I might be I’m probably in the minority here I’m okay with that but how do you respond to all that I think a lot of people for I think rookie cars have lost the allore for a lot of people but I
Think that people don’t want that Allure to be gone when you see the intensity and the ferocity of the arguments over things like what is a rookie card what is the true rookie card those are indicators that we want the value of a rookie card to be back I don’t know if
That can happen because there are just so many options there’s that RC Shield medallion is on just so many things at this point whether it’s a tops card a panini card a leaf card anything else right there’s there’s still something about having the first of something we
Talk about the first prism in 2012 the first set of tops in 52 a rookie signifies the first it’s not always the first I don’t want to get into the whole 86 Jordan debate right or you know but if we’re talking about what’s really a
Rookie card and if it has to be packed pulled then Michael Jordan doesn’t have a rookie card he has a first card but he doesn’t have a rookie card Stan musal doesn’t have a rookie card he started around 43 or so and it wasn’t until 48
When it came out but people want those two players to have rookie cards so therefore we call them so I think that shows how important the rookie card still is to the Hobby now me personally um I like them to a certain point right there are so many altern and variations
And parallels now that you know that fight over what is a rookie card is is impossible to to win I get I’m a baseball card collector so I suppose tops base series one two and update would be the rookie but I also don’t it’s hard although I I although I
Say I just care about the collection I also care somewhat about the value right and for example this past year being a Cardinals fan I was really excited by Jordan Walker the rookie card his rookie came out in series 2 I can go turn over my couch cushions right now and find
Enough change to buy his rookie card the base right I don’t want that instead I want a parallel but is the parallel actually the rookie card and then my head just starts to hurt and I don’t I just kind of want to stop thinking about
It right so I don’t know I don’t have a definitive answer other than to say that it’s clear how important the rookie card is but it’s also clear that the waters have been muddied so much that I don’t know how we reach a conclusion on this
Kind of a discussion well we had yeah I I like that and we had some comments in the chat as to why rookie cards are important so I’m going to get to them I want a couple other comments uh first uh Joe perau says I sometimes ask myself
Why would I pay sorry would I pay what I could get for the card that’s a question I asked too the funny thing is there that’s that’s a different topic we’ll get back to rookie cards in a second but with Joe’s comment here is okay I’ve got
This card here I could probably sell it for 500 bucks well would I go buy it right now if I didn’t own it for 500 if the answer is no well logically speaking shouldn’t we be selling that for 500 because you wouldn’t go buy it but we
Don’t well I know I don’t a lot of the time because I already have the card and I want it but it doesn’t mean I’d buy it again it’s one of those one of those psychological conundrums we have as as as hobbyists we have Oz The People’s mailman from cousins collectibles in the
Audience who says you have us in the Mike you have us in the grave already these guys are still rocking the pot as I said I just listened to one of their episodes within the last two or three days Orlando a collector’s dream good to see you buddy welcome to the show Chris
C says any co-ax is a good co-ax can’t argue with that now Chris olivo here talks about rookie cards the reason he says sorry he says the reason the rookie card should be the most important of a player as it gives the hobby stability if it’s a free forall on what
To collect you’ll have a lot of new collectors that get confused I I I I sort of see what you’re saying Chris I think it gives some guidance it just gives you something to look at and say like if you’re going to collect a player where do you go first what’s the first
Card and logically it’s the rookie card but I mean for a rookie card for a rookie who has you know who came out since 2018 or a bit earlier and they have a thousand different rookie cards how like with then then what it’s not it’s not like there there’s that
Question again Dave then then what because how do you choose which one to go for I mean you’re going to take budget into consideration among other things what do you like the looks of but yeah I I hear what you say I think it does provide somewhat of a
Framework for collectors Chris C says too many rookie cards now and I I it’s weird it’s I don’t know too many means that definitively there’s too many of them well the products are selling out so are there really too many or is it too many for us for me it’s too many for
Chrissy it’s too many is it too many for the industry until they stop consuming them it might not be too many for the overall industry the overall hobby uh lapper says I love rookie year modern cards but I’d rather have a players’s six year card I really like than a
Generic commodity type of Rookie Card Dave anything you want to add on to that yeah and and for me I I think once a card for the for the Vintage type players I think I you know especially when you go back to the 40s 50s 60s I think there is
A more special value in the non- firste cards the non- rookie cards as well like when I think of I would love to to own a Hank Aaron rookie but I think I’d rather own it because then I could say that I owned a Hank Aaron rookie but when I
Think about what my favorite Hank Aaron card is it’s the 58 with that green background God what a card right that is that is the most beautiful card well yeah it’s for for FR Han Aon in my opinion right and if you don’t mind I wouldn’t if I could show a card real
Quick yeah um I me so I sold off all my otanis over since National ended I sold one off because I needed to buy a new laptop I sold some off because I just couldn’t say no because the prices were so high before the injury um and then I
Had one other card that was just so way too much card for me that I realized I could you know help out the family a little bit and buy a bunch of other cards with it and so I sold the ball they were gone and I said on my podcast
Maybe I should wait two or three years four years until he hits this period called the LOL right where where he’s no longer the hot thing but he’s not at the end of his career yet that’s when price is dip it’s where you know Bryce Harper is now it’s
Where by trout is now um mookie bets will be there pretty soon noan arado anyway um I joke that you know what I bet you I’ll buy one by March there’s no way I can wait two or three years and I already bought one and so the the one
That I want to show is the mooki or is the Otani rookie that I bought and the reason that I I want to show it is because I think it shows my frame of mind anyway of where I am so when I think about the first Bowman cards that
He had or the first tops cards that he has he’s either batting or he’s pitching or they’re taking a picture of him batting from a different side or a different angle or he’s waiting to swing or he’s swinging and if you cut the borders off you
Didn’t know what the bo if you didn’t know if it was a 2018 or 19 card or a Bowman or a tops or any of those you would not know what card was which there other than other than the RC on there you didn’t know what the Otani rookie
Was it was so dull there are some players who have who are just naturally charismatic who have incredible looking cards right like mukie bets like Bryce Harper like yach Emina for whatever reason their cards all look incredible and then you have Otani and pool who
Just their cars put you to sleep and so what I went for is I went and did something that a six months ago I said I would never do which is I went and I got an unlicensed card and because I love the way it looked and the card that I
Picked up is a 2018 Leaf achievement gold out of 100 Otani card and yeah he doesn’t have the A on his on his hat because it’s non licensed I’ll show it here in just a moment but it just looked like a rookie card should look it looked
Special and I got it for about 115th 120th the price of a normal aani rookie card that would be numbered to 100 and a PSA 10 and so if you can see it that’s it right like what a fantastic looking card for I think anyway will let will
Sell for anything no it’s unlicensed right it’s not even Panini it’s not even this Panini prison gold out of 10 which can sells for four Figures it’s a leaf card but I got that because I wanted his rookie because rookies are special but I also didn’t want it to be generic and I
Wanted to be something that when I think of a rookie card I can picture that card and so I’m very happy to have that in my collection yeah it that’s that’s the mo most important thing there I’m so happy to have that in my collection that comment there you you brought up the
Lull you know people often I get with Connor Bard being you know this Phenom in Hawk I get so many people that are messaging me all the time saying what Bard card like people who who know I’m into the hobby but they’re not in the hobby themselves like I’m hearing from people
I haven’t heard from since Conor McDavid came into the NHL asking me what to buy and I say just just wait just wait you know because they they they they want to know as soon as it comes out they want to buy it and it doesn’t work that way
Anymore you’re gonna pay more right out of the gate I feel then you will a year or two later every player goes through a lull whether they get they they fall into a slump they have a s or a sophomore slump or they get injured which is now Connor Bard’s you know
Status although he doesn’t have many cards out yet so it’s not going to hurt the value of his cards yet but the lull is something that if you are a very if you have lived through cycles of this hobby you know that the lull for every player every player is coming and you
Just have to wait for it so that you can you know be as economically uh responsible as possible so that’s the law I also listen to one of your episodes where you talk about and I have to um I have to bring this up because it’s where I don’t agree with you Dave
You say that the 69 Reggie Jackson rookie card while a pleasant portrait card isn’t his nicest card I think you you you mentioned you shed out the 78 tops Reggie which I went and looked at today it’s a fantastic card I I I I I I
See why you love it with that that amazing batting pose I and he’s got two cards in that set I found out they’re both actually really nice but the 69 Reggie Jackson Dave it’s one of my favorite per personally so you know you you you struck a CT you you
Pick you you hit on a card that I truly love is the 69 Reggie rookie something about something about that portrait the the the green and the yellow with his name in the blue in the purple circle in the top I love that purple circle I just
Love that and Dave I sold one of them I sold my original copy and you make this comment too that I want to touch on you said that you know you can get a PSA 8 Reggie Jackson for3 to $5,000 or you can get a PSA 878 Reggie Jackson for seven or
$800 oh no it’s like $75 okay so whatever it was sorry but then I just wanted to BR I I just wanted to touch on that a bit and say too you know that there are you you don’t to me the comparison that I would I would make if
I was choosing between those two Reggie Jackson cards is you know I can get a really nice PSA 3 three or four Reggie Jackson for how much versus a really nice you know 78 Reggie Jackson like I wouldn’t be comparing eights personally I would be comparing the card I want because the
Grade the technical grade on Vintage cards is getting less and less important to me as time goes by where I just want a card that I love the looks of I sold my PSA 8 Reggie Jackson before the pandemic then it went up and Val I’m
Like oh what did I do hey you know you win some you lose some but then I reacquired a Reggie Jackson rookie uh at the I think it was the very end of the Atlantic City National in 2022 it’s a six and Dave I can tell you with 100%
Honesty my six is way nicer than my eight was and that that that’s that’s my point there but back to the Reggie I just love the 69 Reggie rookie and and but but the card you point out is wonderful too and you make a very good
Argument there as well and I do like I do like the 69 and at some point I would like to have that in my collection because I have his 87 Fleer glossy card which is what that’s when he went back to Oakland for his final year right when
He was he was old and couldn’t play much and I just want to have that book end um but there’s to me there’s nothing like the 70 I totally hear what you’re saying about the 69 but at 78 it’s the end of that Corkscrew swing of his um really
Reminiscent to musil’s Cork swing but but more violent at the same time um and so I think it’s that’s how I remember him right I remember that swing which he was trying to hit the ball out every single time um but yeah the 69 with that
SLE I has the sleeveless A’s jersey as well that that retro and it’s a Oakland Oakland jerseys look terrific on carbs well think the Ricky Henderson rookie is another Beauty like I just I love I love and that’s more of a that’s not a portrait like like versus the
Reggie rookie it’s more like the Reggie 78 tops where it’s an action shot you got the full body I I love those I love that the 80 Henderson is one of my five all-time favorite cards it’s a great card it’s it’s a great card okay hobby Champs made the comment that rookie
Cards and rookie card rookie year cards are special because once that year is over they cannot be reproduced it’s over done those are your options the supply is finite which can drive demand yeah I think what he’s saying is if there’s going to be 1,00 cards of a player in
His rookie year those are the only 1800 cards you’re ever gonna be able to choose from from his rookie year and I I say 1800 to kind of prove the point or to to emphasize the point that I hear the comment but I don’t buy it as much
As I used to that hobby Champs is making because uh the supply is finite but there’s tens and tens of thousands of them for many players uh you know that have been released in the last five to eight years I don’t which is why I don’t even
Collect that many cards from last five to eight years especially rookies because there’s just you know if I fell in love with a player or you know that’s weird to say fell in love with a player if I really liked a player and I had to have their
Rookie card I still don’t know that I would buy it I I would probably look for a rarer more interesting card than a card that I can go find a hundred of them between eBay and pwcc and comc any night of the week you know I I’d rather
Find something a little bit more challenging but I do understand that once they are made that is it and any card that comes out after is not a rookie year card however with the way the the way paninian tops and upper deck do things these days Dave is that will
Subse will there ever be as many cards in the aggregate subsequent years as there are in the rookie year like I don’t know maybe there are May for some players probably but for most I don’t think so I think most players some players only get Rookie year cards
Because they were a rookie and then they don’t do much after that so um tough David Owens says give me a PMG Championship Mark Maguire over his 85 USA rookie card all day Dave you had a you had a you had a visceral response that what are you thinking oh I mean
Yeah I me the PMG champ Maguire is just insane right and and some of his his entral credential cards are gorgeous and that 85 USA card is the only card I ever had come back as fake I I sent it off to SGC and they and they came said they wouldn’t
Grade it the card was a fake and so I have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth with that card but with David Owens uh bringing up the PMG Championship Maguire that is a fantastic card I was not I was I was I was sideswiped by that one David
Owens and I was not expecting it which is why I swooned a bit yeah good uh hobby Cham says that’s why I focus on more scarce alternative rookie cards like stickers box at box bottoms yeah I I hear you on that hobby Champs I like the the the the just the the more
Obscure the the rarer the the you know you we have I think the card companies and the design Department I think they put more thought into inserts than they do into base cards and I think they put more thought into parallels than because you have a base card well what are we
Going to do for a parallel once you get out once once they leave the zoo they have to be really creative to come to come up with what they’re going to do and I think they put more thought that so I’m with I’m with hobby Champs on
That uh Larry said the 51 Bowman mantle and the and the maids versus the 52 tops maze well there is no debate there in my mind Larry there’s no debate mantel and Mae have one rookie card and that’s the 51 Bowman the 52 Topps cards are more iconic and they’re more popular and
They’re more valuable but that doesn’t mean that they’re rookie cards they’re just more iconic and more valuable uh because that’s the way the hobby is but the rookies are those 51 Bowman and to me there is no debate about I don’t think anyone would can really would
Really debate that and it kind of bothers me Dave when I hear industry experts and people in high places refer to a 52 Topps mantle as a rookie because it just isn’t I find it to be a little bit misleading but I don’t think they’re doing it uh deliberately to mislead I
Think they’re just so conditioned to saying it that way but you know leaders of the industry the hobby I think should know better and should properly describe these things well they’re rather being disingenuous naive or just showing their lack of Education within the hobby you
You know the the 50 no 51 that’s mantle 52 is they’re most valuable Irish Flyers says hockey makes pref the preferred rookie card easy Young Guns no other Spar no other sport really does that and that is the preferred for the masses but for a hockey collector not for me I mean I
Don’t I have no Young Guns in under ownership at all at this time not a single Young Guns in my under ownership at all uh Dan here says uh the 1964 Pete Rose is way better than the floating head 63 see I like the 63 because it’s
So weird looking I recently sold my 64 and I kept my 63 I love the 64 don’t get me wrong Dan I love the 64 I also love the 71 mson and the and the 69 uh Nolan Ryan and and the 76 Gary Carter and so
On and so forth um I’m I’m I’m with you on all those OC trust attorney says for me the best baseball rookie card is tops base and tops Chrome and yeah that uh I think that that makes sense uh for a lot of people Mike Petty says every player
In every sport gets hurt nowadays Pete Rose missed 10 games in 23 years he’s right right like talking about the law there’s always gonna be a LW coming Mike Petty knows about my Reggie Jackson rookie card he said yeah it is it is a beauty Mike David Owens loves the 1978
TOS baseball set all right all right Dave let’s get back to to uh you when when I was talking to the other day you me and I was asking you what are some of your favorite episodes that you have done you mentioned the episode that you
Did with uh with Rob Gerard the for former the former sports card therapist um and you because you were talking about the value of cards Beyond money and it led into your acquisition of your 1959 tops Bob Gibson um can you share with the audience a little bit more
About what that episode and really what what was what made it special for you sure I’d be happy to so M um my mom taught me about sports not my dad and being from St Louis the Cardinals were the team baseball was a religion there practically and Bob Gibson was her
Favorite player and you would hear she would tell stories or I’d read about stories because I I read so much about baseball growing up about his competitive streak and we all know about that 1968 season the 112 erra all those shutouts but my favorite story always
About him was he had a teammate who he roomed on the road with and they were all they were very close their fames dying together and I think it was Bill white I think and he gets moved to the Phillies and they’re in the elevator
Going you know they happen to be in the elevator at the same time the first time the Phillies played the Cardinals when his old friend is now an opposing player and Gibson says nothing to him right and his friend is saying hey Bob how you doing how you doing Gibson says nothing
To him and Gibson’s pitching that day he gets on the mound and the first St bat Just Hits him right pitch like right in the back right in the ribs right in the legs somewhere and then after the game Bob was talking to him at this time
Bob’s better he’s like Bob what the hell man like why’ you do that he goes because we’re not teammates anymore so I so I love Bob Gibson she died years AO ago uh she my mom died in ‘ 05 so you know it’s 18 years ago now
Almost but I wanted since I got back in the hobby I wanted to get a Bob Gibson as a way of honoring her right also me because I like the card I like the pink of the 59 Tops rookie but it was also for her and so finally after two or
Three years of it being in my box out of my watch list in my inbox gone in out in out I finally went and I and I got one and it was one that was in my price range and it was one that was what I
Like to see out of a vintage card in terms of design and and upkeep and centering and everything else um and I had heard Rob in the past talk about his dad’s relationship to Mickey Manel and that’s why he had some mantle stuff as well and so even though Rob helped get
Me started with the podcasting I I purposely never asked him on because I just didn’t want to he he was busy enough right and I thought but this is finally the episode to do it I said why don’t you come on and let’s talk about cards beyond the value of their money
And cards beyond the value of flipping and instead talk about cards on a much like more emotional depot level how they can connect you to different generations and so for however long we talked 45 minutes to an hour however long it was I talked about my mom and Gibson he talked
About mantle and his dad and then we also just talked about what cards can really mean and uh it’s just an episode that I’m really grateful to have been able to do um one thing about that Gibson that was weird is once I got it
It was more of a relief than it was Joy because I didn’t have to be thinking about it anymore and it’s I mean it’s not when I’m ever going to move or flip right nothing like that unless I absolutely am some sort of a family financial crisis anything like that but
It was almost just so intense that I was just happy to not have to have that in my watch list anymore but that was part of it right it was so it’s a baseball card but yet it had become so so emotionally taxing um that getting it
Was just a form of of therapy a form of of relief and so that’s what Rob and I talked about for an episode yeah you know you’re me you’re talking about you know the Bob Gibson for your mom the mantle for him and his dad and this is
This is like it’s it’s this is like elevated nostalgia in a way because it’s not just your own Nostalgia for that player that team that time of your life when you were a fan of that player or team but it’s there’s now there’s real emotional value emotional meaning
Between you and that card because it it not only connects you to that player or that team it connects you to your family member who’s even no longer with you and even more elevation toward towards the importance of that Nostalgia and that I mean you know we
Always say us collectors who have been around who have been collecting since we were kids doesn’t matter how old you are now but if you’re collecting when you were 8 to 15 years old some in there we always we always kind of say that it reminds me of those days when I didn’t
Have to pay the mortgage feed the kids you know go to work every day I didn’t have any responsibility it takes us to an earlier time it’s why we like comic books and video games and all these things we used to do as kids but there’s even more to it when
You can make the connection that you just talked about and um yeah I don’t know how many people have stories like that uh for for for me there there is a bit of that but it’s it’s more to do with friends than really family I never
Collect with so I’m sure but I just want people in the audience to kind of think about that right now think about like why I always try and try and analyze myself why do I need cards and we want versus need is a whole other question
That I know you ask as one of your six but your six questions but the want versus the need is a really important is a really fun question why do we feel like we want and need these cards as collectors not to buy to flip or to
Seller or I mean as collectors what is it that we’re we’re trying to to gra what are we grasping at here when we are wanting these cards and spending you know whether you’re in the shallow end and you’re spending you know a little bit of money on it or you’re in the
Ultra deep end and you’re spending more than you can afford on cards why is it that we’re done that’s a whole other a whole sort of other topic anything else before we move on to the next one I wanted to touch on no I I would just say
That at the end of last year I like like so many other people right I did I did my top 10 pickups of last year and my number one well that that Gibson was like number four or five I just didn’t even want to put a higher than that
Because I still feel like good I got it it’s done but my number one was the 53 Satchel Page which I finally got toward the end of last year when I had to move some otanis to do it um but I was glad that I that of all the people that I
Decided to buy cards of at you know a couple years ago I’m glad it was Otani because that enabled me to get the page anyway I’m rambling with the Otani that also was a connection because growing up with my grandfather um at the time you know St Louis used to have two baseball
Teams they had the Cardinals but they also had the Browns and he would tell stories when he was a kid in the in the 30s that he would you know sneak in to see Browns games because the Browns even then weren’t popular the Cardinals were always the team it’s why the Browns
Moved to Baltimore one reason um but I always had that in my head that he would sneak in and he would see Browns games and he would talk about seeing Babe Ruth cuz the Browns were an Al team and so the Yankees would come to town and he’d
See Babe Ruth and I wanted to have a player with a Browns car with a Browns hat on I didn’t really want to go back as far as you know like George Sizzler or anyone like that right um but and I S I guess it was kind of cheating because
By the time that that Satchel was on the Browns my grandfather was already you know a World War II vet with three kids um but I still wanted to get something with the Browns so even past the Gibson I was still thinking about that connection and not all my cards are like
That right but those are the two that do that do have that connection so I just wanted to say that yeah very nice very nice okay couple comments and we’ll go to the next one Josh giddy says Jeremy can you see Connor Bard being better than Conor McDavid no no I cannot now
Will he be like almost as good and have a couple Stanley Cups to mcdavid’s nun and then and then then it doesn’t matter if he’s as good as him um I’d like to see him have some of that team success as well but I’d like to see Conor
McDavid have that but skill-wise I just can’t I think McDavid is Far and Away the best player we’ve seen technically as a technical player I’m not talking about his leadership skills I’m not I’m just talking about his or his even his his 200 Foot Skills I’m just talking
About uh you know stick handling and vision and hockey IQ I don’t know if anyone’s been better than him since Mar Lew really uh hobby champ says I miss Rob’s take so he didn’t pay for a card not the end of the world we’ve done episodes on that that’s a whole other
Other topic uh Dan says Rob was a very valuable member of the Hobby and I wish he would come back we’re talking about Rob Gerard here these comments are about Rob Gerard the former sports card therapist um Joe says Dave is making me want to pull out my 59 Gibson sweet card
And cool to have that extra layer of connection definitely definitely isn’t that nice when you hear a comment like that Dave you’ve inspired someone to want to pull out one of their CSS and have a look at like that’s just fun that’s just fun Dan says I just did an
Entire show on my channel to celebrate my uncle’s 100th birthday by profiling his favorite team the 1948 Braves a team that IPC for family reasons like yeah that’s that’s such a cool uh way to approach a hobby is having that just those extra reasons versus because they’re they’re popular they’re you
Know just there’s there are some really nice reasons to collect certain cards out there okay Dave how do you like your vintage that’s one that’s one of my questions that I’m I like to ask people you know you can you can say to somebody how do you like
Your how do you take your coffee I want to know from you Dave how do you take your vintage and I’ll let you answer I think people understand the question’s getting on yeah it has to start with centering my eyes uh go to centering first and I forget who said it um
Somebody said you know you wouldn’t hang the Mona Lisa right if half the picture was off the frame that’s yeah that might be MD C it was it was mty C collection right it was Matty C and I’m the same way so I don’t mind if my Corners are
Are bent around it in fact it makes me think that a card is so is its age which I think is kind of nice right but it’s got to be centered even when I’m scrolling through eBay on my phone and the pictures are small before I’ve even
Zoomed in I just have an eye I can look right away and go no no no you know I don’t I’d like it to be centered right to left and I don’t like it to be sitting high or low I can I can take 55 45 that’s that’s fine um and and for
Certain cards even made maybe 6040 um but not much more than that it I if I I cannot unsee it um I don’t mind a little crease but it cannot be in the face oh so I have to jump in but before I want
To do this I want to make sure I do this before you do I want to call out Bob hosta from your recent episode that I listened to today and that’s what is driving this question I’m asking you how do you take your vintage is your episode
With Bob hosta I’d like everyone to go you know if you have time go listen to that on the shallow end podcast uh because what Bob said was that he doesn’t mind some creasing but his number one rues no creases through the player’s face and I think that’s a re I
Mean that’s a pretty important guideline to have I think so I just want to shout him out because that’s what drove this question and now I’m gonna hand it back to you yeah and so his his IG is Bob hosta collection so and he’s worth a follow
Some really such a thoughtful guy I love talking with him um so centering us first um don’t mind busted up Corners that’s fine I don’t mind edges that are a little rough and cracking that doesn’t bother me at all um I’d like the color to be as vibrant as possible if it
There’s a little bit of fading that’s okay um but um but I do not like the registration to be off that that don’t like that so say if I were ever to get a 48 Leaf uh um s musal right sometimes you can just see the outline which is
Just you can see how far off it is sometimes so that would bug me a little bit um like Bob I don’t mind a crease as long as it’s not on the face but number one for me is centering and then number two is is the color has got to be close
To um as vibrant as it can be but yeah cut my Corners off I don’t care yeah no I’m the way I answer that question is like you you gave us the specifics and I can do that too but the way I answer that question is I want my vintage to
Look its age if it looks if those Corners if those corners of my 1933 goues are like super like sharp that they would you know they could cut you like I don’t know that just it doesn’t feel natural to me to have a card from 1933 with squared off Corners it just I
Want my cards to look their age now I don’t necessarily want them to have been crumpled up and flattened out again but like you centering is important it’s not the end all be what’s more important to me though is registration the f as you were talking the focus of the card I
Want my car I don’t you know you remember when you used to take pictures with an actual camera and get the film developed you know most of us remember that if there were there were sometimes pictures that came out blurry you probably didn’t keep those you probably
Threw those in the garbage because they were no good to you I don’t want a card that has terrible registration a little bit of a registration issue is okay to the extent that it does not impact the overall aesthetic of the card the overall eye appeal and like you know 48
Leaf is pretty famous for having some pretty blurry off-register cards so yeah I like them to look their age be as well centered as possible strong as strong registration as possible and also to not be like you said I don’t want to surface either um I have one card in my
Collection that’s like that but it has everything else going for it that I still I still love it it’s a my it’s my 33 Sport Kings Eddie Shore actually talking about an old card um so yeah I I want my don’t I don’t want my borders of
My 53 parkur or my 52 tops let’s say to be white as can white as rice you know like I want them to to show that they’ve actually breathed a little bit over the past uh 70 years or so so um yeah little bit little bit of granularity there but
At the end of the day I like my vintage to look its age and um yeah you know which ties into grading and all that like I listen I’m all I’m all for grading for various reasons but I am not prisoner to the Grave if I see a four
That I like more than a six or a two that I like more than a four you know taking budget in consideration I’ll buy that two all day long and say forget the four I’ll probably save some money too so yeah yeah I agree I agree with all
That you said and I would also add too I don’t like I don’t like snow on there either when when hard to get away from it on some cards though it is it is um but for some of those I will tend to just maybe not even want the card at
That point right um but yeah like you’re talking about grading you know um when it comes to Vintage when it comes to grading I kind of like it just to be slabbed right just because somebody who was more professional and more trained than I has said that the card
Is authentic right and and for me it’s not so much and for so many other people as well I’m not being original with this but I think I just like my vintage slab because I have more of a sense of security that the card is is what it’s
Supposed to be as well and also for the preservation yeah well oh of course right to authenticity preservation is nice too there’s other ways to reserve but authenticity definitely and event and the other thing for me you know as a as a father you know is that like should something
Happen I don’t it’s just going to be easier for my wife my kids whomever to ultimately dispose of these things if they’re gr and I think I think that’s it’s almost like succession planning estate planning grading you know you you know I don’t want to get I don’t want to
You know knock on wood and all that sort of thing but you you just never know and so I think it’s important for those reasons as well um and of course if you are are in the buy sell game it’s much easier to sell something that is grad
Because at least there is a third party um I I can’t I can’t say objective without me and mean it so I’m not going to say an objective opinion I think they want to be objective a lot of the time but it’s just really difficult to be um
But anyway I think there’s lots of good lots of good about it let’s go back to the cards for saying t. Jones says I despise that centering has gained more prominence in overall condition the the the corners add rare I’m not sure what you’re saying T do but
Uh I get the yeah a lot of people not everybody needs centering uh not funny welcome to the show not funny says I’ll take any example at the right price then I can always look to upgrade yeah I don’t I won’t I won’t take any example
At the right price um not personally I won’t but hey that’s just that’s a strategy and I’m sure it’s working for you Mike Petty says each card has different qualities that add to the beauty not every card has to be centered that that’s why I’m the king or I’m the
Low eye appeal King and I I love that approach too yeah we don’t all have to be prisoner to some of these things um Bob hosta says a crisp card with a pinhole is fantastic an instant uh PSA one really is what it is and I I completely completely agree with that
Comment 100% bre mooki says breaking Iowa man hates snow yes Hobby orders are centering registration Corners edges in that order that’s my order too that is my order exactly how I look at car how I assess condition uh for my own liking that’s exactly how I do it t do says IAL is
Huge on a card like the Gretzky rookie yeah if the card isn’t in Focus I move on same here same here hobby champ says back centering also means a lot to me means less to me means less to the technical grading companies as well but
Um means a lot less to me actually I so I doesn’t mean a lot to me like it do hobby chance it means a lot less because I do spend most of my time looking at the front but like Dave said earlier there’s something to be said for
Appreciating the backs of cards where do you fall on centering on the back Dave it doesn’t bother me as much right I I don’t like a miscut on the back I I like to be able to read all the content um I like the uh the 71 I like the 71 Kareem
A lot I don’t could like basketball if I did I would start with that card um but that card often will cut off uh it’ll hang so low on the back that you can’t see the bottom of it um but no it Le
Less so I just I need I need the front I need I need the display side to be centered otherwise I just I don’t it makes me itch well here’s a break here’s a a breaking opinion right here Chris C says I don’t have to have v a vintage
Card that’s graded either well that’s true right I totally hear that you definitely definitely do not have to have a card they don’t have to all be gr and it depends where you get it from if you’re buying a card from you know somebody who found them in the Attic
After 60 years you know it’s probably good if they legit found it in the atic after 60 years or you’re buying it from a guy who’s at a card shop for 45 years and you know him and trust him you know then you don’t need to worry about
Authenticity uh you can buy it that way and still and still enjoy it the cardboard Corner says that has been my Outlook as well Jeremy so many people say that they grade PC with SGC or PSA for resale aren’t all of our collections going to be resold eventually unless you
Are literally buried with them yes they’re going to be sold eventually corner I agree with that and I think um I think a lot yeah I mean you’re doing your you’re doing your uh airs a disservice by by thinking that if your cards go to zero you don’t care if
You’re not taking care of them that kind of thing but in any event yeah eventually everything’s going to hit the market again right Dave I mean even cards are locked away forever there is no such thing as forever in this hobby because we as collectors are not forever
So no and you just have to ask yourself is it going to be resold by you or is it going to be resold after after you exactly exactly oh there’s some other things that come out of that okay but let’s let’s we’ll save those for okay I
Wanted to now talk about your episode with the six questions and we’ve already touched on a couple of them but let’s just kind of run through so guys Dave did an episode you got to go back and listen to it to get it you know his Original Episode I’ve listened to it
Three times in all honesty I find it to be that um enlightening and Dave the fr the the the summary of the of this episode is that when you are looking to purchase a card you have a you have a filter and that filter is consists of six questions that you ask yourself
Before you make that purchase so do you want to go through these questions one at a time would you like me to kind of tee them up for you one at a time how do you want to do this I think it’s important we get through these yeah I’ll
I’ll just go through it and I just want to say first that that it’s not perfect right and and I came up with these questions through trial and error and through making some bad purchases and a lack of focus and so um even now since I
I come up with these six questions I sometimes forget to even go through them I just I let impulse take over and I go um but here’s the first one the first one that I ask is is do I want to look at the card or do I just want to own it
And I think it was Dan earlier who made the point about the the Aesthetics and the art Artistry of a card and that really matters and I mentioned before the 87 Don Russ Bo Jackson rated rookie and the reason that I couldn’t part with that when I was getting rid of a bunch
Of things a few weeks ago to to to buy this other card is that card to me is bow right um I mean he is just jacked in that baseball uniform and that’s how I remember him being right that c it’s dark he’s looks like he’s playing catch
Almost like he’s in the Field of Dreams it’s it is a beautiful card um on the other hand the 87 top smart meguire it’s just another shot of a baseball player standing there in his in his stance that’s all it is um did I want to have
That card yeah because it made me it was I was it was was nostalgic right but I didn’t want to look at it and and that’s what I mean by do you want to have it you have it you know then what okay so you’ve got it but you actually want to
Take out this card and look at it and appreciate what it looks like and and I think that’s such a great filter to run your potential purchases through are you goingon to there are there are cards Dave that I will literally make a little stack you know
From where where I keep them some of them are right here in this room I’ll make a stack and I will carry them up to my bedroom with me and I’ll put them on my night table and as I’m falling asleep I will look at the cards front and the
Back and I will just kind of you know enjoy them I don’t do that with all my cards but cards like that you know it also ties ties into the the want versus need like do you get a feeling from a card when you look at it and there’s a
Couple cards that I’ve purchased Dave where I see it hit the Online Marketplace and for seven or 10 days or two weeks whatever I’m I am going and looking at that every single day to see where the bid is at and just to to look
At it and as I’m looking at it some cards I’m like I am winning this no matter what I am going to war over this card and this is a war I’m going to win um I’ve gone to war and lost cards it happened to me last week you know some
You know you can’t win every war you get into to win a card but um yeah some cards you want to look at and you’re going to enjoy over and over again and some you just end up putting them away and then when you go through your
Process of deciding if you’re going to keep them however often you do that maybe you can convert that back into some other resources right into another another card okay so do you want to own the card or do you or or do you sorry do
You want to own the card and look at it or do you just want to own the card if you want to own it and look at it it passes and and and then I my question is then do you go to the next question or
No they’re not in any order this is just order that happen to come out of come out of my my mouth right so the second question was do I want this card or do I need this card and and and you said it better than I could just now you know
Sometimes you look at something and that’s it I’m going to get this card everybody else bidding bad news you’re going to lose this time right I’m going to get it and if you find yourself drifting off at night thinking about it you’re driving to work and you’re
Thinking about it that’s a pretty good sign that this is a c that you need right sometimes you go through something and think oh I like that but then you don’t think about it anymore and then appears in your it’s on your watch list for a week two weeks two months and you
Keep forgetting that it’s there I get rid of it I I don’t want I I like it the idea of it might be nice but when I find myself unable to get it out of my brain that’s when I know that there’s something there there’s there’s there
There if that’s going to happen yeah and so in your episode you you took it a step further you actually were were kind of talking um about like you know when you’re when you’re thinking about the card are you having like this this almost like a visceral lust for the card
Or is it something that you are just looking to acquire to fulfill like a a temporary need like maybe some retail therapy or you haven’t picked up anything for a while so you know what am I gonna buy and you know this card looks good I’m I’m gonna I’m gonna buy it it’s
Like how do you how do you Dave recognize that you might not be truly lusting for the card where you actually like need it versus want it it’s temporary it’s temporary moments of clarity right in within the within the fog of collecting I have these temporary moments of collecting where I know what
I’m like where I know that I get ideas and these ideas are just half baked today for example I was thinking should I start collecting ich hero and then I was just like no no you shouldn’t you should not start collecting ich hero I
Love Ichiro um I mean just this God I I love icho so much but I already have enough going on but on on um on eBay right now is his 2004 Topps Chrome red xfractor um not numbered but there were less than 70 of those made and the
Albert phol of that card is the number one card on my want list for this year um last time there was one on eBay I think was end of 22 I didn’t know how rare they were at the time um I should have jumped then but I saw an Ichiro one
And I think I sort of correlated the two right where I thought oh well I want the pool one that’s hard to find and this is the first Ichiro one that’s come up for a while I want that but I also want his O2 tops from gold and then I had to step
Away and say no nope no and so I don’t know how that happened but for whatever reason you know I just had a temporary Moment of clarity I wish there was something more scientific or logical to it but I just got lucky on that one yeah
Yeah okay let’s uh a couple of comments here that have come in and then we’ll get we’re going to get to skip uh the the qu question four or no we’re we’re gonna get to question three here in a moment we’re going to skip four then we’ll go to Five because we already
Covered question four uh Dan vintage says the end quot no matter what cards I know them well and I think we all have well most people I know I certainly have a couple no matter what cards out there mooki says I ask a similar question Dave if I wouldn’t put a potential purchase
On a shelf in my museum maybe I will hold off see that’s a great question for Muki who has a museum uh you you need you know that’s we I I think one of the takeaways for people and for me included in this episode is Dave has got his six
Questions that he’s stumbled into you know kind of by trial and error and their thought he’s put a lot of thought into it you you know that by listening to his episode but they don’t have to be our questions we can come up with another you know questions for yourself
Uh that that that that work for you El Toro Loco said earlier that it makes it easier on your family yes if you are having your cards somewhat uh especially you know vintage important cards graded for your ultimate upon your ultimate demise of course uh not won’t talk much
More about that t.1 so what card did I go to war for last week and not win it was a 2021 Upper Deck the cup teu Solani emblems of endorsement and I I took a knife to a gunfight for that one Dave I wasn’t even
Close I think I was a fourth highest but a great award that I lost okay next question had to do oh we kind of address this one had to do with the rookie cards but I’m going to let you speak to it if if there’s anything more to say than
What we said earlier yeah it was more with with the cards it was more asking myself do I want this card because of this player because it it is the rookie card or because I actually like the card right you know if if the later year cards are more attractive and more
Affordable why would I buy the rookie card sometimes you buy the rookie just because it’s the rookie and not you me that’s what I would ask I would realize I was doing that and I would get the rookie card and realize I was just getting it because I thought that I
Should have it and so that was the the foundation of that question got it yeah and it’s be it’s like I I used to say that everybody everybody who collects hoey card should have a Wayne Gretzky rookie card and I you know you can go back to my content from three two three
Years ago and probably hear me say that a few times a year and I I don’t know that I believe that anymore and I’m I think I’m entitled to change my thoughts on these sorts of things as well because I’m evolving you know and and developing
New ideas and and soaking in new ideas from other people who ideas I respect and and and listen to and uh I don’t know that that’s the case anymore for me that I that I think that and you know of course not everybody needs to have any
Single card but you know more of a generalization if you’re a basketball collector do you need to have a Michael Jordan 86 Fleer debatable if it’s a rookie card or not but do you need to have an 86 Michael Jordan Fleer card maybe maybe not I I I don’t know so I I
Like that that’s a question that you ask I think it’s an important question that you ask 89 Upp de griffy if you collect baseball do you have to have the 89 uper de griffy I mean there are about 2.5 million out there so I recently sold
Mine Dave I I sold mine because I have griffy cards a couple that I like a lot more and I just I thought you know what I don’t need that card it’s cool but if I want one it goes back to what we were talking about way earlier in the show if
I want one I have my choice of thousands of them any night of the year I can go find one if I want one or I can go buy a raw copy for 10 or 15 bucks at the next card show and have that card if I really want one
So okay that was the rookie question so that was question three question four is then what which we’ve covered question five why don’t you why don’t you tell us what question five is question five is me literally asking myself you realize you’re not going to get make any money
On this card right so basically what I’m hoping for is just not to if I ever have to move a card thinking that if nothing else maybe I’ll just break even right meaning I don’t want to buy something that is sort of the flavor of the day um
Not a kaboom guy right well Kabooms hold long-term value will the mangas hold long-term value like maybe I don’t know but they could just be trendy now and if if I’m really into one then 15 years from now maybe once I see that that that I won’t be just flushing money um that’s
You know that’s kind of what I think about but that being said is I should not be buying any card thinking that I’m I’m buying this card flip it this card is not going to make me Rich it’s not going to be the 89 tops Future Stars
Greg Jeff right which is what everybody was going for before they realized they should have been going for for griffy 85 tops Eric Davis right the 84 Don Russ Don madingley those I mean those are the dreams that I filled my head with when I was younger and you
Would think that being older family and kids and a job that that would would no longer be how I think but at first when I got back into the hobby I was thinking oh oh this car is going to be worth a lot and they weren’t they absolutely
Were not um this it’s just my very long- winded way of saying what everybody else says which is just buy what you like buy what you think makes sense um for you and stop trying to think that this is your 401k yeah yeah I think I think that’s
Fair I think um it’s one thing to you know you you can purchase sports cards with the intention of selling them for more than you bought them for or like keeping up with inflation let’s say uh you said very well in one of your episodes that if I buy it for $40 today
And I can sell it 20 years from now for $40 and my initial thought was yeah but you’ve the time value of money and inflation you you’ve lost money but then then that thought went through my head really quickly and then you said but I’ve had I’ve had 25 years of enjoyment
From the card well that makes up for the loss of Time Value money and inflation because you had a you received a benefit from owning that card which was an emotional benefit which was worth the money I mean you know you you go you go
Into a movie at 8 o’clock for for 20 bucks you come out of that movie two hours later you have zero bucks does that mean you shouldn’t have gone to the movie no you had two hours of entertainment yeah function and utility matter right you know if I buy a brand
New couch for $800 and 15 years now from now I sell it for $200 I am not losing money I got 15 years of utility out of the couch and got some money back out of it too now obviously I do not want to lose 75% on a
Card that’s a little bit different but as long as I’m breaking even fine good enough or Lo even losing a bit is okay too right I mean yeah it depends what you’re in it for if you’re if you are if you are not really a collector you don’t if you don’t have
Anyway I’m not saying I’m not saying sports cards are couches right uh T do made this comment he says you should have a collection of top tier rookies in a sport that you collect so I’m gonna I wantan to I just want to kind of play Devil’s Advocate on this question for a
Moment because just like I said are you should everyone should have a Wayne grety rookie if you collect hockey well I don’t really think anyone T daughter myself should say to anybody you should have this in your collection because I don’t walk in your shoes I don’t know
What you should have you know what you should have you know what you want I don’t want to tell anybody what they should have then I think about this question Dave I think to myself well okay so if I collect hockey and now I I
So does that mean that I have to have a a Gordy how rookie and a Bobby or and a Wayne Gretzky and a Mario Lemieux well those are very hard to afford for most people so now I feel in because I can’t afford it maybe but I but someone’s
Telling me I should have it so I don’t know I think I think that’s too strong of a statement but then I think about okay well maybe I don’t collect vintage so I don’t want those guys I didn’t see them Play Why Should I have them maybe I
Should have top tier rookies in this in the sport today well we know how expensive some top tier rookie you want even a young gun Sydney Crosby are spending a couple thousand dollars so I I hear what T Dot’s saying and I I I live by it myself I want to have that
Myself but I don’t want to tell anybody else you should do this anymore when I see a comment like that and I respect the question T you should have a collection of top tier rookies in a sport you collect my response is why why should I yeah exactly that that’s that’s where
I’m and this is this is sort of newer for me Dave and maybe I’m maybe I’m listening to you and and others I don’t know but um or maybe even going through the process of moving off of some cards that I’ve had for years and being okay
With it I sold like I moov some cards that I’ve had for years like key rookie cards you know 60s 70s 80s rookies and I don’t miss them which is really nice to be able to say and you know not do I not
Miss them if I want them if I do end up Miss like I sold my Reggie and I missed it and I reacquired it and I missed it right away I was like damn I love that card but a markc Messier rookie I can go find another Mark Messier rookie
Whenever I’m not in a rush I got some cool Messier cards in the collection um Bob hosta says you can never underestimate the utility value of ownership and I uh you nodded right there Dave um do you want to add some context to that I think I know what he’s
Saying but I’d like to hear kind of your thoughts on you know why can’t we underestimate the utility value of ownership right ownership gives you it it gives you there’s emotional value right there’s social value there’s all sorts of fulfillment that you get and I I think that’s what Bob’s trying to say
Right when you own a card when you send your money over to or trade some cards to acquire a card just owning it itself gives you some sort of utility it there there was there was function to it and I do not think that should be underestimated now I’m just realiz I’m
Quoting what Bob said I’m I’m sending this question back to him but I completely agree yeah makes good sense for sure Kurt Renault says just joining after the NFL game surprised to see another Ian as a guest nonetheless there you go you guys are in close proximity
Simon 466 cards Who Will Be Our Guest next Saturday on this show says discussion about utility equals a discussion fit for an economist’s heart and we’re gonna have another we’re gonna have back toback well back Tob back to back to back I’m sure really interesting episodes with Simon 466 next Saturday
Here on the show guys make sure to join us then uh okay Mike Petty says I’ve spent more than a mon month in both my grandparents homes and the house I grew up in ouch I am a collector yes that is inflation yeah it’s not that hard to do
These days okay Dave the next question we did we did the rookie card we did uh then what we talked about the money and now the last card the last question and this is the one that I think everybody could apply to themselves when you’re building your own framework and listen
Some people in the chat have been collecting for years you have your Frameworks built that’s fine you’re just getting to hear some other ones here but if you’re somebody who is maybe having struggling perhaps maybe you’re buying too much maybe you’re not buying enough maybe you don’t like what you bought
Right Bob hosta tore down his collection I believe a big portion of it and rebuilt it up and he’s happier than ever he’s got a whole system tiered system and spreadsheets and all this stuff you got to listen to that episode guys the on on the shallow end but the last
Question that you’re about to to share with us and present to the audience Dave I think is one that everybody I here I am saying should and everybody again I’m going to take that back I’m going to say it’s one that I’m gonna start imple implementing into my personal collecting
Framework please Dave right and I completely RI this off from about a hundred different people that I heard it’s not original but the question is would I buy this card if I wasn’t allowed to sell it for 20 years right right it’s simple I’ve heard
So many others say it and I just wanted to incorporate it into my own thinking and it’s just you got to ask yourself if you’re stuck with this card can you move even if can you at the very least tolerate it yeah I think that’s it’s a good if
You were forced to not sell it for 20 years would you still buy the card and like to me Dave that’s a really easy question to answer because unless I am buying cards like just to put in my showcase at a show or to trade which some some I do that sometimes I’ve
Always bought cards with the with the mindset of 20 years how about 40 or 50 like that’s kind of been where I’ve been at until as I get older and the decades go by that number comes down of course but that’s where where my mind has
Always been so that’s very natural uh to me but I think you know you need to kind of put a have a Time Horizon in mind and and ask yourself whe and whether it’s maybe it’s not maybe it’s five years for you maybe it’s this year you know some
There’s so many different approaches to the way people collect and and and transact within the hobby that I think um yeah there there’s different ways but I think it’s an important question to ask yourself in whatever form makes the most sense to you 100% it’s just so
Smart right and we’ve all I’ll just put it on myself but i’ I’ve made those mistakes where I bought a card because I think that I should have it or I think that I do like this set or whatever um and then you know you hear the the story
That you open you open it right and this is before I was really sort of finding my my what I like you know and you open it and you think where was I in the moment that I bought this because I don’t like it now um and
So just the reason that I came up with these six questions or I didn’t come up with all of them right the reason that I put these six questions together for myself is just to avoid those situations where where I I I I don’t have any direction um because since then I I
Needed something I needed to have something because I was just a kite in the wind um and that’s just no way to collect I wanted to have something that I could look at and see some sort of a cohesive message a cohesive idea behind what I’ve been what I was doing and um
I’m just much happier now since I’ve been doing that well I think if you are you know you can have buyer remorse when you purchase cards sometimes right or anything for that matter and I think buyer’s remorse is going to make you feel worse and so if so therefore less
Happy and if you’re if you have a good framework in place like six questions you ask yourself before you make a purchase now listen maybe you’re buying cards for five or 10 or 20 bucks and that doesn’t mean much to you and you don’t need to go through the process
It’s gonna it’s all going to be Rel everyone’s going to be different where you fall you know I can buy cards for 10 or 20 bucks and I’m not going to think too hard about it but as soon as I’m spending a couple hundred bucks or even
Aund bu whatever it is I’m gonna put even 80 bucks I might think a bit harder about it and then if you’re getting into the you know closer to a thousand the thousands well now I’m thinking about a whole other I have a whole other set of questions maybe that I’m asking myself
Like how much do I really believe in this card the player how long do I want to hold it for among maybe a few other things as well so okay those are the six questions we’re going to go to a couple more comments and then I’m going to
Touch on another episode you did which kind of ties into uh this last question we had about the 20 years OC trust attorney says when I have finished collecting Mae mccovy and Juan Marell I will look to buy key baseball rookies from 19 6 to 1980 these were the cars I
Wanted when I was a kid but could not afford I think that’s yeah like right exactly that is a wonderful reason to collect it’s not because you should have rookie cards those players it’s because you want the cards you couldn’t afford when you were a kid and you did want
Them I think that drives a lot of us today uh in being able to buy things we couldn’t when we were younger for sure Jake do says I look at rookie cards as just another card if I want it great if not then oh well there’s other cards I
Like much better I think that’s a real liberating way of looking at it uh for sure decoy cards says just joined but excited to play this back later glad I got here for at least one question welcome to the show decoy cards Mark santui I like hockey picked up a Bobby
Or card rogi Vashon Brian leech I have no Gretzky rookies and no Gretzky cards and that is that is fair okay uh you did an episode that was titled should I sell everything should I sell everything I’m I listened to it I didn’t listen to it again but I
Listened to it back when it came out so you’ll have to maybe remind me a little bit but why were you even asking yourself the question so you hear the term Grail thrown out all the time and people say things I got a Grail card
What are your Grails and I don’t want to get into the fight about that but I will say that you know if you believe the story Jesus drank from a grol right he didn’t have 17 cups that he was hoarding so I have one gr card and that cup that
Cup that card is the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson I love baseball I love history I’ve written a book on Sports history actually and that is the card it is the rookie card of the of one of the two most important baseball players ever and it’s one who him and Babe Ruth and but
It’s the one who I just respect more who I just I I can’t even put it really into words and to own that card would be the Pinnacle of my collecting and since I’ve been into the hobby it’s gone up and up and up and so the question that I asked
Which sort of bordered on one side it was hypothetical on other side it was very real was should I just get rid of it all get rid of everything that I own and then not and then get that card but not get that card and then get out of
The hobby but get that card and then start over knowing that I already have the card that is the most important to me which it would be um got some really I was I was touched by how much feedback I got by people um some of it public
Some of it private Jeremy you reached out and and and Matthew 1956 cards reached out and so many other people reached out um I ultimately decided not to do it partially because I realized I just didn’t even have enough right even if I would have would have done done it
I’ still be saving for a while but also just because I enjoy the collecting side of it too much and I didn’t want to just have one card even though by now if I had done it I would have had a few more by now started to build back up but that
Just seemed like the Cornerstone that seemed like what would have been the rock of my collection um if if I had to pick one card and then had and then I was booted out of the hobby um that would be the one card that
I would if I owned and I was out of the hobby I would think okay I miss it I miss the people I miss the cards but I have this and this is not a card this is a living piece of History okay yeah yeah
So you talk okay I have a lot of thoughts going through my head here because there’s some some deep stuff there when you have one Grail like you do 48 Leaf Jackie if you were to if you were to move out everything let’s say you had enough and then you pick up the
Jackie you start over what are you going to start over with because you have the card you want the most so now is anything going to make are you gonna kind of be are are you gonna be less satisfied and gratified with each card you get after that as you rebuild to the
Point where it’s like well I got this Jackie nothing else is gonna scratch that itch for me anymore so I I have a concern a little bit of a a concern about that and then I think to myself okay if that’s the case then maybe we should have multiple Grails and Grail is
Is not it’s not even the right word technically but because you know there’s one Grail let’s say but let’s just be liberal here and say maybe I should have several Grails so that I do have something else that I can chase once I get my number one otherwise I might get
Bored and disinterested and maybe that’s okay too to you got your you know you have your one big card maybe that’s I know one guy he’s got he’s got a collection worth millions and he says he’ll trade it all for one card one card and I think to myself you’re
Crazy like all for one card like thousands of like I I couldn’t imagine having one card in my collection I wouldn’t consider myself a collector anymore but that’s that’s fine that’s that’s that’s his that’s his choice and I’m not going to judge I judge it for me
Not for him it’s like no way could I do that but go for it if that’s you that’s fine so I’m kind of like I’m I’m glad you I’m glad I I’m kind of glad you didn’t do it because I wonder where you’d be today and maybe that would be
Interesting maybe you do it later we’ll follow up a year later and see what what happened but do you see what I mean like what you get that one Grail is everything else going to be disappointing after that it’s kind of nice to always have something to strive
For you know yeah and I think I would I I would still have lots of Chase cards it’s just that every other card compared to that one seems less important right so it’s not that obviously I value the 59 tops Bob Gibson uh I I I value the 53 Satchel Page I
Value the Miss mentioned the 58 Aaron heck I I I value the 2018 and Otani whichever one of the 1500 that you want right but I mean he is he is a generational type player but it’s almost like it it to me anyway it’s almost as if those cards and
Those player are they’re less worthy than the 48 Jackie and that once you know it’s you can’t build a house without the foundation you can’t grow a tree without the trunk and that feels like the trunk you know to me that feels like where everything would grow out of
Where would I go once I got that I like to think that I’d go back to some of the cards that I already have now I I just would would have I would not have the let’s use the right word I would not have the anxiety that I might never own a
Jackie um I could probably get close to one now if I just again wanted to sell everything off um and that might just provide some comfort in a way to me to me um that okay good I got the card I got the most important card now let’s
Have some fun right now let now let’s decorate that house right now let’s see those branches grow on that tree yeah you You’ find ways right you’d find ways to to keep keep interested and find other things that that you’d be that you’d want JP says maybe round Mount
Rushmore instead of Grail okay so you’re limited to four that that’s progress right there he then says or members of the round table I’m not sure how many there are 12 or 13 I more progress right there I like I like that thinking JP mookie says how about Crown Jewel
Instead of Grails lots of other jewels on the crown but there’s one Crown Jewel bigger better than the I like that I I like all I like all these ideas guys as far as H ways ways to look at it so yeah I I think um that episode you did guys it was
Episode 14 of the shallow end that’s uh that’s Dave’s podcast and um he he talks he talks about in more depth about the the the thought the the the Mind Pro the thought process about you know consolidation and like would you sell everything for one card I know I
Certainly wouldn’t unless someone was making me a trade that I couldn’t turn down and now I now I could sell that card and get everything back and then some but there’s no there’s no way that I that I would be a happy person today after trading all my cards for one card
Even if that card is a t26 Wagner or a PSA 10 52 tops Mickey Mantle everything I’ve I’ve been building for 40 plus years now for one card that I you know it’s cool but I’m only doing it for money at that point the only reason I
Would want a 52 mantel would be to sell it that’s that’s the only reason why right and same with same with the Wagner you know when whenever I look at Mickey Manel all I think is mayze was better um but I but I think now um I’m glad I
Think I’m glad I didn’t attempt to do that um you know I might have some fun at the national I don’t have a lot of cards I might throw them all into my box and just bring them and try it there’s there’s only one card that I did not own
At the time um there’s only one card that I think I would leave at home because I think giving it up would be too hard um just acquired it a few weeks ago so maybe it’s sort of the shiny new thing um but yeah I mean why not part of you
Know swimming in the shallow end is is the cards that were if there the cards in the aggregate that I would give up in order to get it if I actually found a dealer who would want like say to acquire mine for inventory so that they could fill out their case again maybe
Day three of national or something like that um the the comfort of being on the end that I collect is that they could all basically be acquired again with time and with patience um whereas at my current saving trajectory if I were to really lock in on that 48 Jackie I would
Not be getting anything for probably three to four years yeah yeah I hear you okay all right uh let’s okay there was one question here T dot was just asking should there be a threshold of value to call yourself a a collector whatever sport he says hockey but could be any
Absolutely not uh decoy agree says no full stop perch says Nope yeah absolutely not and you know there’s you can have one one card in my opinion you can you can have one card of a player and and consider that a player PC you know he might grow might grow it might
Not may maybe two maybe you need two I don’t know but there’s no rules that I think that’s the thing you you can you can call yourself a collector if you’ve got $10 worth of cards um I’m not going to argue with anybody about that I mean
Who who Am might have say what you are are that’s only only for you to say at that point something as really as as simple as collecting okay Dave we’re we’re we’re down to about six minutes left in the show last summer end of the summer you spent like two weeks all you
Did was listen to content I forget how long it was what did you do and why did you do it and what happened tell us tell that story sure so I listened to 62 hobby podcasts in eight days and that’s not off the top of my head I’m looking
At it right now um it was 62 podcasts totaling just under 55 total hours um I did it because I wanted to see if I could do it that that was part of it um people ask me two things about each morning right why I share everything every morning um and there’s
Always uh two questions I get one why do you do it and then I explain as a way of sort of saying thanks and sure people stick around but the other big question I get is do you listen to them all and I’d say no um one is that I I wouldn’t
Possibly have the time and two was I don’t want to but then I realized I didn’t really know the answer to that those were sort of my guessing answers I said well I am a teacher and so I haven’t gone back to school yet my wife’s out of town on business my kids
Are all working or in camps let’s give it a shot one week let’s see let’s really see what happens for one week and so that’s why I did it as experiment um it was awful I will never do it again um but that’s the reason that I did it it’s
Just to see what it would be like to listen to every single piece of hobby content that I could get my hands on for one week and you did an episode after it where you actually talked about each episode that you listened to and you you describe yeah and you talked about what
You were thinking at the time it was very interesting it was very interesting especially for someone like me whose name was mentioned a few times in the episode because you listen to a my podcast so along with along with it it was great don’t get I’m not it it was
Very I was flattered of course that you listen to my podcast in the first place but um but that was interesting and that that’s your commitment to your craft right there is you were listening to as many as you could did did listening to them help you with your own
Podcasting oh my gosh 100% 100% because I realize certain things not that anybody does anything right or wrong I just realize what my taste and my style is um for example I’m not really into a lot of banter like there are some shows where they have two hosts and for the
First 10 or 15 minutes they’re talking about like who knows what like Star Trek movies or something and I’m I get so aggravated I’m like just get to the point and so I realized with me it’s like just start just go um which is one my show so often has has cold openings
With you know I’ll do the theme later sometimes I just want to start talking um I realized I don’t mind shows that talk about current events or scams or scandals or whatever’s going on but I really appreciate the ones um that do their research and are educated about it
And I always want to give a shout out to let me get that photograph um with Drew and Scott and right the week that I did that was the same week that wander Franco’s legal trouble started and and there were a bunch of uh um podcasts that I won’t even talk about
Where they would talk about it but it was just you tell they had like sort of like just scanned ESPN for like five seconds and they would say yeah we know it did was terrible let’s talk about his card values I’m like let’s not talk about his card values right now and then
Drew and Scott from let me get that photograph just went they sourced everything they went through the research they were so smart and professional about it that I thought I’m not sure I want to be a current events guy but if I ever am I’m going to use
Them as an example yeah good yeah I I remember when you you know I I know Drew we’ve been we’ve been like pod you know podcast Brothers for a while and uh he was one of the first guys that ever invited me on on a show to be a guest
After I started mine and when you when you talked about him I messaged him right away said hey you got to go listen to I Iowa Dave’s uh podcast because uh he talks about you and I think you’re gonna like it because you’re very complimentary you know Drew works really
Hard in the hobby he’s uh he’s a dedicated uh hobbyist and podcaster so I knew he I I did he ever reach out I just I just know that he was very grateful for that Drew did uh drew his partner reached out and we had some nice back
And forth nice that that that that’s very nice to hear um okay as we wrap up you know 2024 is upon us you’ve done you’ve done so much for the podcast Community what do you plan what any any specific topics or strategy or plans you have for the shallow end podcast as we
Roll into 2024 here just sort of generically is I I want to have a nice mix of shows where I just talk about whatever is going on with me and then from now and then break it up with a guest and I really want to bring in some
Guests uh who are thoughtful who I enjoy following and who aren’t always making the rounds on all the shows and so I’d like to bring people who are maybe shy or or don’t think that they have anything to offer and to bring them into the conversation because they really
Have a lot more to offer than I think good fair enough why don’t you show us a few cards I ask you to bring a few cards let’s show the audience a couple of cards from your colle ction as you do that I want to thank you T dot for
Recognizing or or at least telling me that I’m getting better at viewer engagement thank you T dot I appreciate that comment uh Dave yeah let’s see a couple cards from your collection have three cards here the third card is going to be the grand finale it’s the one that
I was talking about the one that um I recently sold 30 plus cars just to be able to get um I’ll save that one for last the first one is uh the 1992 Topps gold Berry bonds here and uh one of the first uh parallels it’s hard to see with
There but you know you got the gold down there um I’m a big very bonds fan I find him relatable and and maybe won’t go into why but I’ve always identified with him a lot um with a uh uh I’m someone who likes credit sometimes I sometimes
Let my ego get the best of me and I fully understand why he started doing uh what he did um and the next card will will sort of explain that but I’ve always been a bonds fan he was the best before peeds he was the best after it um
I like this card because we also forget that he was such an incredible Fielder he was also a great base runner he was really the perfect player I thought um and I love the gold uh when I this is one of the first times that uh tops put
Something this shiny on a card and I think it was the beginning of a lot um of what they were going to do over the next 30 Years so that was the first one that I picked out tied to that is this card it’s a 1999 Topps chrome allet
Refractor of Mark Maguire it’s a pop seven um on this card um show that again like and do this a bit so Inc if if pastel and neon can somehow mix into Chrome refractors this this card did it um beautiful card and it’s 99 I like 99
Mark McGuire because 98 was the year that he hit SE hit the 70 um what’s interesting about this card is two things one is on the back is it list everybody who is in club 40 which is everybody who hit 40 home runs in 98 who
Is not on that list bonds because at the time if you look at the 1998 All-Star game they’re all lining up and you have all these hulks with their inflated muscles full of fluids from the Peds that they’re doing bonds hadn’t started doing it yet but that was the year that
Maguire and Sosa had their Chase and you could just see the jealousy oozing out of him which is why I find him so human because he’s here he is who did everything right up to that point and he was the best and everybody else should we say cheating um
Getting all the notoriety when he didn’t do it so I love that he’s not on this card because he wasn’t doing anything yet and a couple years later he’s you know breaking all sorts of Records also with this card I was at the uh uh card
Show in De Mo the capitol city card convention which is one of the two major card shows in Iowa each year um I thought I was being so smart I acquired this card um the griffy as well for this version a ps9 plus some cash and I sold off a
2019 it was a 2019 O T Heritage out of 573 Chrome PSA 10 and he had just coming he was coming off the great year in 2022 and I thought Now’s the Time to sell spring training this is when you sell Otani cards right never knowing
That he was going to go up another notch and if I had just waited a few for more months that card would have gone up more but it’s hard to be too upset getting that card getting that Maguire card which is yeah such a low pop all right
Grand Finale it’s a 1954 red heart stand musal um like I said before I don’t really think musal has a rookie card he just has a first card he has the 48 Leaf he’s got that black and white Bowman shot um but for me his 54 red heart is
My favorite card of his it’s the color match it’s so bright and Vivid and so I just got it in about a week and a half ago um sold about 30 plus cards and put some other cash to go with it um and so here is this card yeah you know
So so nice yeah the card is notoriously offc Center usually um and this one is not I found one centered um and so it’s just fantastic um it’s a PS I’m just gonna Dave I’m just gonna uh shorten your name can you show it again so we can see the whole
Thing I just yeah yeah want to really have a now is this is is redart is that the dog food company it is it’s the dog food company so there’s only 20 or so cards or so dog food card guys that’s so cool if I recall correctly one of the
Biggest cards you are after I think in 2024 is also from that set is that right no I would like a red shandies out of it um I thought you were looking for the mantle didn’t you say you wanted the mantle no okay my no not really I’m not
Really a mantle guy um I wouldn’t mind I wouldn’t mind putting the set together and the mantle would have to be the next would have to be the other one it’s the only one with any real value when did you acquire the mual about a week and a
Half ago okay so that must be what I’m thinking because I listening to a podcast where you said I want to yeah I’m G to get the red heart I must yeah and it was the musal right and so that was the one that was high on my list um
Thrilled to get it um I haven’t bought anything since right I’m I’m filling up I’m filling up the coffers again um but I just love having that card it it’s it’s M’s best and being from St Louis that was a dream card it’s a beauty for
Sure for sure all right well I’m gonna run through a few more comments here we’re gonna wrap up guys so get your final comments into the chat and uh Mark says he’s s Mark you don’t have to apologize for being late buddy but I appreciate you being here uh every
Saturday night hope everything is well for you out East Mark wants to know Dave do you have any 80s cards maddingly ripy Ripken and bogs he wasn’t here at the beginning of the show we talked about that earlier Mark but uh you do Dave don’t you I do in fact episode one of
The shallow end is about me finally picking up the 84 Don Russ uh don madingley yeah I’ve got it and guys again um Dave is on Instagram he is and I I I took the I took your name off the the screen there but it’s Iowa Dave unor
Sportscards that’s how you follow Dave Schwarz on Instagram and of course his podcast is called the shallow end and just look at the look at the YouTube thumbnail for this video and you’ll see that it’s the yellow ID logo you can’t miss it and um I’ll tell you like I
Don’t I listen to some podcasts I do I don’t know how many I listen to but Dave is one that I he’s like he’s the pretty much of the top of my list guys for ones that I enjoy listening to so highly recommend you check out Dave’s podcast I
Don’t think you’ll regret it I think you’ll enjoy it and they’re a lot shorter than mine so uh although you you do go get up to an hour sometimes don’t you with a guest I will for sure guest with a guest Dan’s vintage says Terrific show gentlemen a thinking man’s
Collector like Dave is such an asset to the Hobby well said Dan couldn’t agree more mooki says one of of the reasons I need these cards is because they are a passport into this great Community thanks for under out thanks for an outstanding episode Jeremy thank you
Mook and that’s I I get that I get that it I I I I I always say you know it’s nice to build rapport with people it’s why we like each other because we feel Rapport and I think Rapport comes from having something in common so when you
Are you know you meet you you run into somebody who’s looking at their if you’re if you’re like I don’t you’re on the bus or you’re walking through the airport you see somebody looking at cards are you not going to go up and say hey what are you doing like
You probably are you know right away that you’re probably going to be able to have a conversation and maybe get along with them because you have something in common that sort of instant Rapport to a degree thank hobby Champs you take care as well Northern Lights entertainment
Thanks for joining us tonight yes it is cold up north recently thank you Professor for being here says need to hit the thumbs up on this great video only eight so far thank you Professor sure guys hit the thumbs up if you don’t mind Mike says lots to think about after
This episode great episode thank you very much Mike OC trust attorney is going to buy an 84 Don Rous madingley because I remember it being the first card people went crazy for and had some level of scarcity and was notoriously hard to find well centered I remember those days as well
Myself Tom Bullard n just didn’t update Professor it was like 28 likes thanks Tom appreciate that easier to understand terms when I was the 28th person to like it thank you Tom appreciate that thanks for being here Tom all right guys well Dave gonna give you uh the final word
And then we are going to sign off for this episode of sports cards live Jeremy thanks for having me I’ve had a really good time I love talking cards and to your audience thank you so much this is one of the best audiences anywhere in the hobby so thank you everyone and take
Care thank you Dave I appreciate that guys in the chat guys and ladies and gentlemen thank you so much thank you cardboard Corner appreciate that very loves both shows that’s awesome guys tomorrow night I’ll be back with Josh Madigan of the hockey cards Gong Show where we will be talking about cards for
Sale on the pwcc weekly hockey always fun and educational and then Monday night is the the most action you’ll find in the hobby on MC Monday’s live here where we’re going to be covering all the cards ending one minute apart it’s a ton of fun join me and Michael Hathaway from
MC Sports Cards for that and you got to check check it out it’s a really fun show please join us and again next Saturday on Sports Cards live Simon 466 The Economist will be my guest he’s got a YouTube channel check it out as well always very uh very thoughtful
Analytical and data and uh presents very well perch thank you so much guys and with that everybody this episode of sports cards live is now
9 Comments
At 23 minute make you discuss Paul HIckey and I agree with all the positive comments Dave shared about Paul's YouTube channels. He has a card collecting philosopy that as Dave says is more intentional. His YouTube channel is affiliated with a local LCS as well. Very unique and content contributors also work at LCS.
at 57:32 of your live stream the 1952 Mays is his first topps card same with Mantle NOT Rookies there rookies are 1951 Bowman!!
at 58:27 I have the goalie of the Captals in a young guns Braden Holtby 2009/2010
Addtional thought about the 23 minute segment, Paul HIckey and his experienced card market group share their general experience on when the card market in general is down. These are lessons to consider on when to buy even if you do not plan to sell. They share for free access theier opinion on top baseball prospects to buy. One could easily turn that list into top baseball prospects to collect. They offer their content for free on who to prospect including F1 and Hockey. They offer an opinion on when not to buy Verstappen as far as market hype and which Verstappen card and from what set to buy.
Great show Jeremy. Now I have another podcaster to listen too. Ha.
100% agree on rookie year cards. If they came out in the same year as the RC, I believe they are all rookies.
Thanks for the love JLee and Dave. Excited to collab more in 2024. Great show and talk soon!
1:57 mark near the the wrap up of the show; I still did not catch Relistening who you and Dave were discussing “ Drew and Scott” Thanks.
Cheers 🍻
Always enjoy the insights and conversations
Man what a great episode! The Hobby is lucky to have someone like Dave contributing to it.