Tonight, the Chicago Bulls will unveil their Ring of Honor at the United Center. The new addition to the atrium will honor former players, coaches, front office members, and past teams. If the Chicago White Sox were to establish a Ring of Honor, what would it look like? Vinnie Duber, Herb Lawrence, and Sean Anderson discuss which players and people would be honored on the CHGO White Sox Podcast.
0:00 – Intro/Show setup
2:07 – Did the White Sox not know who the opposing pitchers were in 2023?
18:10 – White Sox Ring of Honor 1st class
33:10 – Robin Ventura deserve inclusion to Ring of Honor
40:06 – Do the 1919 Black Sox deserve inclusion?
52:53 – 2005 World Series team go in as a whole team?
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#WhiteSox #ChicagoWhiteSox #ChangeTheGame
Heyo welcome in to the chgo white sock podcast coming to you live from our homes here in a snowy Chicago land area I’m your host Sean Anderson alongside me the full chg White Sox crew you can follow Vinnie duber our chg White Sox beat riter at Vinnie duber the man
That’s usually in the middle is Herb Lawrence hello that way you can follow him at echner wall 23 he’s our chg White Sox Community leader and I am Sean Anderson you can follow me at shanw Anderson you can follow the show at C hgor white socks and we have
Lawrence benedetto producing us today uh and shout out to law on the draw uh if you are here hanging out with us hit the thumbs up button on this Friday make sure you’re subscribed to the chgo sports YouTube channel because if any breaking news happens in the Chicagoland
Uh area for for for sports I don’t know why I keep saying Chicagoland area uh but if anything happens with your Chicago sports team we will have you covered uh there’s been the Sha imanaga uh emergency podcast there’s been the Luke gety emergency podcast this week and if anything breaking news happens
With the white socks Dylan ceas I guess uh we will have you covered so make sure you’re subscribed make sure you’re hitting the thumbs up button and make sure you’re telling a friend uh on today’s show we’re going to be taking a page out of the Bulls Playbook uh Vinnie went and
Saw the new Ring of Honor which is being uh established at the East at Atrium tonight and being uh kind of unveiled as Steve Kerr’s Warriors are visiting uh the Chicago Bulls so we’ll talk about the white sock version of a Ring of Honor uh but we’re also going to start
With a comment that I uploaded to our YouTube channel we played in full on a podcast about two days ago and Vinnie is now groaning uh at the fact that we are bringing this back up uh so Lawrence is it ready do we do we have the Chris gets
Clip if we do here is it’s currently processing here a little spinning dial here and it will be ready momentarily hello everyone I don’t know if you could Vamp for like a little bit here I’ll say this I’m not I’m not groaning that that uh that it’s being dredged up again I
Really don’t care what it is you know that’s fine it was it was an answer to a question that I asked I just feel like uh I’m groaning at the reason that it’s back that that it’s being dragged back up which I think is any time the White
Sox tweet out anything or put anything on social media no matter how innocuous or not um um uh everybody just reacts very negatively to it and decides to scream them down so I think I feel like that’s what’s maybe happening here but we’ll take a look at the answer because
Again it was a question that I asked and I I wanted an answer to it this is the answer we got and so let’s take a look at it why not Christ building off of that what sort of confidence do you have in kind of I guess the the infrastructure that
You guys are putting together here to turn a lot of those guys who didn’t have very good offensive Seasons a year ago or in some of the cases of some the guys you’ve brought aboard you know the the last few years what sort of confidence level do you have that the offense is
Going to be improved even if you’re not necessarily going out and getting guys who who have the the biggest offensive numbers yeah it starts with the education to our players you educate them you hold them accountable um you you make sure that they’re they’re prepared to go out there and fight on a
Daily basis they got to know the pitchers that that they’re facing um I I do feel like the system is going to be strong in place uh Marcus tames is is very experienced um with all different types of uh hitters experience levels um his various stops Mike toar has a strong
Connection with some of the players that are that are already in house and we’ brought other others around that that are going to be part of the supporting cast as well so um I feel pretty good about where we’re headed are are we where we need to be of course not um but
I I I do feel like we’ve got the makings to to to be more successful than we’ve been in the past hey uh if the white socks don’t post a quote graphic of Chris get’s innocuous comment there uh I don’t know about uh this this answer and
If you don’t answer ask this question we’re not playing it so you know I mean part of this too is just so we can you know get some Vinnie shine here it’s all your fault Vinnie but everything is we are very interested in how they’re going
To turn around the the the offense it’s a good question and the education of their player and quote they have to know the picture they’re facing I think it’s important to play it and hear it because when you read it it just seems very very much like oh it’s Mike Soka versus Luis
Castillo and they have no idea who Luis Castillo is I think it’s maybe probably saying you know we have to be able to educate them on all 13 of a team’s pitchers so that even when they’re going up against somebody in relief they’re not surprised by this guy’s crazy Matt
Brash slider or or something to to use an example I think maybe Chris gets didn’t give a ton of uh color to that comment and that’s why just the harshness of they have to know the pitcher they’re facing is very scary for the team that I think was 29th in waited
Runs create a plus and was horrible offensively well absolutely and I think too you can probably trace it back to what has been the White Sox offense’s biggest problem not just in 2023 but in the past several years because we’ve heard multiple managers talk about it which is they’re just swinging at
Everything and I think that uh you know it’s part part of curing that is the game planning aspect of it is a guy GNA throw you a bunch of breaking balls outside of the Zone then maybe don’t swing at everything so much but if a guy’s just piping fast balls all day
Then go right ahead that’s a strategy that might play and I think what Chris was was talking about there was pretty basic at least for a major league or basic game planning and basic uh you know hitting strategy 101 something I’m sure you’ll hear from Marcus temp
Something I’m h sure you heard from the rare occasion that Jose Castro spoke last year but also from Frank manino when he would speak I mean this is not revolutionary ideas it’s just that White Sox hitters have not done it and I think you know we heard from pedri Gall at the
End of last season saying at times it was a problem of guys listening to the coaching staff maybe that is is is kind of the thing it’s like hey here’s what the benefit of listening to the coaching staff is is they can help you with this game planning and what strikes really as
Pretty run-of-the-mill stuff when they talk about wanting guys that play a certain way and play the right the right way um I think you are probably getting some of that in there too of guys who know just the basics of going out there and and and making a game plan to to
Have success in a given at bat not necessarily over the course of an entire season you had something Sean you had you well I I do but I don’t want to I don’t okay so what do we make of this though because again you know they have
To know the piter they’re facing you bring up a guy going up there and just maybe throwing only fast balls right maybe that would be successful for for the socks there was a moment last year where Luis Castillo threw 47 consecutive fast balls correct that was on August
21st on August 22nd Rick Han and Kenny Williams were fired is is this maybe a moment that Chris gets was so disgusted by that like he went in and made a passionate plea to Jerry reinstorf to say hey I could clean this [ __ ] up like I I I don’t it it is
Such a bizarre thing to say they have to know the pitcher they’re facing and and hey maybe they don’t know again some of the a bullpen guys but even then Luis Castillo a well-known commodity is pumping 47 straight fast Balls by it I mean if you think about it last year we
What we hear from players on this team team was unprepared and I would put it past that these guys didn’t get the players prepared now these are grown men they should be preparing themselves for the battle that they’ll be going against versus the pitchers so they should know
This stuff on their own but it’s never a bad thing for your hitting coach or your assisting hitting coach to give you the play byplay of what’s going on on the the the mount or what pitchers could be coming up against you later in the game
And so yeah I think that maybe there’s some truth to this but yeah hearing the the quote with the actual him speaking it it’s a little bit more um innocuous but how can you blame White Sox fans they heard what they heard last year from Kean Middleton that the team wasn’t
Prepared people are missing meetings missing pfps so I wouldn’t put it too much far past this team with the one year that they had with Jose Castro and the one year they had with Chris Johnson that things weren’t done things weren’t done properly and so maybe Chris just
Said that as a side but I wouldn’t I wouldn’t just poooo and say that probably didn’t happen yeah I I mean the one concern too on top of this is you know this was a complaint from past managers Tony larusa Pedro Gall came in to the job saying
We’re going to prepare every night to kick your ass they lost over a hundred games uh I think there was a question recently from our Discord saying you know what did Pedro Graal do in 2023 to actually be reesta estblished as the manager because there wasn’t really
Anything that you took away like oh this guy really knew what he was doing um it really did seem like a lot of blame going towards the players uh and and I think part of it too is the the Royals thing that we brought up yesterday is
That again is this just more uh Royals buddying buddy uh more Royals Bud buddy buddy uh just leading to Pedro gfal keeping this job but the thing too is like Tony larusa the guy who also was complaining about these guys approach and maybe their game plan he’s just
Rewarded now as a as an adviser so like I don’t know how do you fix the problem if Pedro gfal and Tony larusa the two past guys who have been a part of getting ready you know getting the game plan ready are still at Power with the white socks
Maybe because they know the the the problem so immensely they’re so disgusted with how how how bad the problem was I mean I just well I think I think what I think what you’re doing or with that question you’re assum you’re you’re swinging the other way right if
I’m if if if I’m going to say boy those players are not doing their job up there they’re they’re the ones taking the abats they’re the ones that are paid to to go up there and and not strike out they’re the ones that are paid to go up
There and not lose a hundred games and yet they’re doing just that you’re playing Devil’s Advocate in a way and saying well get the get everybody out everybody that could possibly have uh anything to do with it get them out of there I think the answer to your
Question is you know how do you fix it is you change the roster right I mean I that I mean that’s one way and and certainly you’ve seen some pieces already be removed from this roster some of them are immovable or relatively so um and maybe that’s what is the
Long-term plan is to have all of these guys come in and again when I say this not I’m not saying that the team is going to perform to these statistics but you’ve seen the kind of people that have been brought in so far maybe you get the
Play the game the right way additions like Paul D young and like Martin Maldonado and like all those guys and then you get that in a like I said a more productive way once you go out and you start spending some more money I don’t know but uh that’s the answer to
Your question I guess we’ll see if yet another hitting coach can uh turn things around with the same group of guys because as we’ve seen so far this off season the uh Improvement on the offensive end is going to have to come from Yan monata and deoy Jimenez and
Andrew Ben and tendi and Andrew vaugh it’s because it’s not coming from Paul D young and Martin Maldonado and Nikki Lopez unless they surprise with a year that is drastically different than what they’ve done in the recent past any more thoughts on the Chris gets weird quote graphic that the White Sucks
Posted today nope I’m with Bennett just shouldn’t have posted it why why post it it’s it’s not that Illuminating besides your team looking unprepared cuz as somebody again who’s supposed to program content for the white sock five days a week I didn’t really check this comment when I
First heard it I I I mean we got 10 minutes out of it now so hey I’ll take it but you know surprising it was a little context free too I mean it like it was a question that was very specifically about the offense and the the stuff that they’re doing behind the
Scenes to try to make the offense better and it was just presented as like like you said a Pedro G we’re going to kick your ass every day quote and it’s like well but that’s not what it was it was him talking about a specific thing well the one thing too
Like in like you asked how do you make the offense better an an answer that I would be able to be like oh that would make sense is if they didn’t know the pitchers like again this team in 2023 back in 2020 was projected to be the
Team of the century this was supposed to be the team that was winning world series in 2023 the white socks were supposed to be winning 112 games and not losing 100 games right like it it is very shocking to see how bad this team
Was so in a way I don’t think fans would be that surprised if there were some nights where they had no idea who they were playing like by the way that they looked like it was very easy to go up against the white sock just throw
Sliders blow it away and they’re G to chase right it it really didn’t seem like it mattered who the pitcher was as long as they were right-handed and able to throw a slider they would be able to get outs against the White Sox like I I I don’t know hopefully they have a
Better game plan who’s the tiger opening day starter Tariq scoble scoble right we got a good uh game plan against scoble uh and then uh you know they’re able to to hammer off of them maybe we finally see the power of against lefties come back uh you know that’d be great
All right let’s take a break uh we’ll jump into the Ring of Honor talk uh and then we’ll get on with our Friday uh let’s let you know though about our friends over at Circus Sportsbook our friends at Circus Sportsbook are the world ‘s largest sports book and you can
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Media last night uh there was a little party at the UC uh the Ring of Honor was being introduced that had a a little ceremony to open up uh the Ring of Honor uh for the people who are being inducted uh so Bulls greats like Bob love Luke
Longley um about Michael Jordan wasn’t there Scotty Ton Tony K coach was there he’s being inducted Luke longley’s just there as part of the team but yeah as part of name sake Luke McDonald and your man Luke long looking great too in our chat uh yeah looking like a
Member of Wilco uh Vinnie you ended up going over to the United Center and checking out the Ring of Honor yesterday so what’ you make of it yeah it was cool um I mean I don’t know how many how many how much crossover there is here with
Socks fans and Bulls fans but uh you know growing up in the 90s obviously you know big bulls fan when I was a kid and to go and see kind of the MU little museum style display that they had up there was really neat and you know they
Had jerseys and uh you know shoes and and and game balls and and stuff from certain certain famous moments and you know old but then you know with some of the older folks you know the guys who played in the the 60s and 70s you know old old programs and warmup warm-ups and
Penants and stuff and I don’t know it was pretty cool it was like I said kind of Museum esque a little bit they they moved the Pippen and uh red Cur statues down to the atrium so everything was kind of all in one spot and um it was
Just it was just neat to see all that stuff and it would be cool if they keep like the display cases up maybe throughout the year and then like or you know then next time they do this they have special display cases maybe for the next batch of inductees but uh it’s a
Cool thing to do um especially for a team like that that doesn’t have many retired numbers um a cool thing to do and and kind of a uh it was fun to go over there and see you can hop in there for free in the atrium when they’re not
Playing and stuff like that so I thought it would be a nice way to spend uh 15 20 minutes and indeed it was yeah I think that ring of honors are better than retiring numbers because we are living in this period in 2024 we’re not thinking about a thousand years from
Now we’re a bunch of numbers can be retired by then Ring of Honor gives the special um commitment and ceremony to that player or person without taking a number out of rotation there’s only a hundred of them as we’re using right now and so it’ be kind of tough if you go double
Zero we got 101 it’s going to be tough for the years in the future where we’re just going to be retiring extra numbers and the white socks already have a bunch of retired numbers so that’s why I would say a Ring of Honor would be best things
Moving forward as the Bears they don’t even retire numbers anymore because they have so many retired already at this point yeah it’s it’s a way to for uh Sports fandom to evolve and grow I think it’s smart and I mean the main reason why we’re bringing it to the White Sox
Podcast is because Jerry rhin storf owns the Bulls uh and he mentioned that this is Michael’s project uh that he wasn’t really asked about this project at all he just showed up uh which hey good for Jerry you know he’s kind of hands off with the bulls it’s a money-making
Machine uh but you know if Jerry rinor sees what a great idea this is I don’t think it’s crazy for him to maybe bring this to the south side of Chicago so what we’re going to try to do is you know flush this out but in a white socks
Way uh so the easiest way to do this is by just taking anyone who has their jersey number retired and they’re a part of the first class already any any objections here or is that a pretty easy 11 right there yeah it’s so many it’s so
Many that I think that yeah it would be this would be a hard thing to get off the ground I think for the white socks because the first year the first like oh it’s the inaugural class of the Ring of Honor it’s the people whose names have
Been on the stadium already for the last however many years so um it would be kind of a uh it would it would be kind of an anticlimactic uh first class but then the second class would be really exciting I feel like uh the the the the
Thing that’s cool though I think the Bulls definitely it wasn’t just players you know you saw uh Jerry Krauss red Kerr um you know and uh well dick Klein who was the first the first owner who who brought the team here so there were some folks obviously Phil Jackson and
Tex witer both uh you know from that dynasty coaching staff you know there were some folks who didn’t play for the team who got into to be part of this Ring of Honor too and I think the white sock could do something similar uh if they wanted to go ahead and take those
11 names that are already up on the board for uh for being there having their numbers retired and add to it with a little bit of uh off the- field uh honor honor right there yeah that’s the one thing uh before I jump over to your comment herb the Bulls they were founded
In 1966 and un unfortunately you know Jerry Sloan has passed uh but you know Bob Love’s still around Scotty still around Michael Jordan’s still around the thing with baseball is and you talked about the inaugural class uh there Vinnie baseball’s old as hell uh so six of the 11 retired numbers uh those
People are have have passed uh unfortunately as due to old age um so uh you know that I don’t know the first class might be a little thin uh but first class those 11 uh being Fox uh Nelly Fox Harold Baines Luke Appling Minnie minoso uh Luke L Lis apparicio uh
Paul kerko Ted Lions Billy Pierce Frank Thomas Mark Burley and Carlton Fisk uh as Vinnie brings up Phil Jackson Tex winner uh if we’re going first class non-retired jerseys maybe you know key people of the franchise any nominations you want to bring up I mean my first person that I nominate before anybody
Else I mean the most what when you think about white sock baseball for me I think about Ken the Hulk Harrelson like he’s got the whole Press Box or his section named after him already and you like him or not you say his lines all the time K
Of corn what’s Frank Thomas’s nickname the Big Hurt that’s from Ken Hall harelson like he was white sock baseball from the 80s what became a general manager real quick sucked at that came back to the booth and up until he got retired a couple years ago that’s White
Sox baseball for me so I would put his name in The Ring of Honor of non-players that would be my first person absolutely yeah I mean you know certainly this is a a a Fan Experience right is ba is Major League Baseball and what better than the guy who was the
Voice of that team for so long uh I would go ahead you know and put a few managers in there I think you got to put the the winningest manager in White Sox history that that’s uh Al Lopez uh his work obviously with the the goo white
Socks in the in the late 50s there but he managed for an awful long time believe he leads the franchise in wins and winning percentage uh that would be a no-brainer and then obviously the one who led this team to their most recent and their only World Series in the last
Hundred years uh and that would be ozie G and I think the two managers those two managers are are no-brainers for uh for a first class of the Ring of Honor yeah uh so I’m I’m fine with uh non-retired jersey numbers uh Hawk Azie and Al Lopez
Being a part of that first class um Dave Barista and um Ben Carol are bringing up Ed farmer uh me he he was an All-Star with him he did some scouting for them or Baltimore to I mean I would put him in there because but I’m biased I worked with Ed
So what put there eventually for sure eventually yeah I mean if we’re talking first class I don’t I I don’t know but I mean what a great guy you know I think folks would love to just see him honored in any in any number of ways how about
This so we have those three non-players I mean obvious Azie was a player so my bad Ed farmer was too um but you know what I’m saying uh added because of their contributions post playing as well um what about these if Hawk if Hawk Azie and Al Lopez are our first three
Non-players in the second class Nancy fost Bill veck Ed farmer Bill VEC is a slam dunk I think I would have put I would put him in there as soon as you can um also herb herb stand up for a second let’s see what shirt you’re
Wearing right there today that one I had Ru Foster on my list oh wow yeah and I think obviously it’s not the same organization it’s not the same franchise but guess where there is a Chicago American Giants flag flying uh these days and that’s over Guaranteed Rate
Field uh and if you want to talk about uh someone from Chicago baseball Negro League Baseball has certainly be been turned into Major League Baseball retroactively you know in terms of statistics and and and honors and stuff like that uh rud F rud Foster the founder of the Chicago American Giants I
Think that would make total sense to put his name on up there on the uh on the wall as well 100% agree like uh the the barnstorming they did the whole uh allstar game the concept of allstar game came from um The Negro Leagues and the
First one here was in 1933 but you said Nancy fa I would add two more people and Nancy 100% I mean when you think about white socks and na n hey hey which she brought to the white socks lexicon because she liked the the song by Steam
And she uh played it on her organ she deserves uh inclusion but what’s a white sock thing without one of the most beloved people in white sock history is Roger boser the SFA I’m fine with I’m fine with that uh Bennett saying retire the rake for the
The golden rake man I believe it’s Tony the roer referred to him as the the one issue though with Ru Foster and now uh uh the sidef father is we had uh threes so what are we now going to go to four and do we put rubbe Foster in the first
Class and then uh bosard in the the second class also bosard still with the team does he count should he be putting Jose AB not retired yet I mean well also this is made up so we can make our own rules Sean right no I’m just trying to
Define those rules now I mean um you got one of the people who got their numbers retired while he was still playing so you already have precedence of giving that to a player or a person that hasn’t hang up the rake as it were with Harold
Ban no relax I mean we’re we’re going off of what what they uh listed as as the candidate so uh the Bulls ring of H the Bulls Ring of Honor the Bulls Ring of Honor honores must meet a set of criteria Must Have Spent at least three
Seasons with the bulls or socks must have retired from baseball basketball for at least three years Roger Bard’s still going don’t try to kill off roer Roger Bard’s uh plentiful and bountiful career I’m just saying they did that for Harold Baines when they retired his number and he was still playing there’s
There’s rules herb this isn’t the Harold Baines retiring jerseys thing all right this is a completely different thing um all right uh let’s get into some players after a break uh let’s let people know about Midtown Athletic Club and game time if they are looking to uh maybe
Even go to the Bulls game tonight as the Bulls welcome in Steph Curry and uh Steve Kerr and the warriors uh herd why don’t you let people know though about where they could possibly play some basketball Midtown Athletic Club has four Chicagoland locations Palatine in the northwest suburbs banic burn in the
North Shore willbrook in the southwest suburbs and Midtown Athletic Club and hotel in the middle of Bucktown and Lincoln Park Midtown Palatine has launched a multi-million dollar transformation of the club which will be complete in early 2024 now Midtown is offering no initiation fees for this January at their banic burn Palatine and
Willowbrook location so go there right damn now something at the club for everybody whether you’re a single person married with kids people looking for holistic Lifestyle Changes whatever you’re looking for Midtown has it for you because Midtown Chicago is the nicest Fitness club that I’ve ever been
To because of the super Luxe locker rooms with wet and dry saunas and premium amenities amazing outdoor indoor and outdoor indoor pools and hot tubs a collection of Boutique Fitness Studios for more than a 100 classes per week included in your membership places like the arena if you want to do some hit
Workouts if you want to do yoga there’s some MTI boxing there’s a place called everybody fights for Spin and cycling there’s a place called ride and the field and the theater are for cross training and group EX exercises but the thing that midtown’s known for the most
Is their tennis courts and they have the best tennis courts and programming in the sport Midtown has indoor outdoor tennis pickle ball and paddleball Tennis USA professional quality all the way head on over to midtown.com chgo and find out more and tour the Midtown athletic club that is nearest you thank you
Herbert um is it okay if I call you Herbert that’s my name I know but like I don’t no one’s busted out Herbert uh people call you Herby calls me Herbert Courtney does yes almost exclusively when she calls me herb I’m like what the [ __ ] did I do shout out
Courtney I’m gonna call you Herbert and throw you off now uh let’s let you know about our friends over at game time uh you shouldn’t have to worry when you’re buying tickets to the next big event game time is the fastest and easiest way to buy tickets for all the sports music
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Guaranteed okay um so Alejandra De Jesus uh bringing up uh where they’re bringing up Journeymen uh like Albert Bell Jim Tomy and Chris S one of those does not belong um I have a a list of names of players that should be included um one
Of the guys might be able to to flex into uh the category that we just did of uh contributions outside uh of a uniform uh but Robin venturo was a really great player I don’t know if he should be introduced for his managerial skills but uh Robin is sixth all time in
War above uh Louis apparicio above Jose Abu above Carlton Fisk above Harold Baines Robin Ventura a real damn good player herb uh you got uh 23 in that uh in that handle for a reason uh I think Robin is a for sure uh inclusion into this list it’s the perfect player that
You put into a Ring of Honor not not not necessarily good enough for a retirement of a number but also a lot of contributions to that team during his period of time that he did play and how many gold gloves and silver Sluggers did the guy win with those 90s white socks
So yes I 100% include Robin B as a person that I would put into my list for a player that did something I mean we’re going to get to the next player and uh if you want me to nominate him Sean I can I don’t know if you want
Me to continue to talk about Robin what I was gonna nominate another player who is also number 23 Sean and would you happen to know who that is Andrew benintendi it is not Andrew benintendi it is World Series MVP Germaine die yes I know people are thinking like whoa only five years with
The white socks what did he really do he has a higher on B he has a higher Ops plus than Paul kerko in his five years that he did play with the white socks he was a Silver Slugger for right field in 2006 that is almost impossible to do
Think about all the white fi the right fielders the white socks have had in their career they haven’t had a lot of them he was a really great one for his five years that he did play in white socks uh Pinstripes so I would say he in
His five years got the job done I appreciate Bennett saying the White Sox retired the right field position in his honor um I don’t know about JD though I mean he he deserves it eventually you know what I mean I think the idea that the that the Bulls are
Going with here is that like this is something that’s going to go on for a long long time I think they said that every two years they’re going to revisit it and the classes are not going to be this big as they are right out right out
Of the gate but you know maybe two or three guys every couple of years get a nice little night to to say to say hey to the these guys you know they’re going to get to Derrick Rose and and and Joe Keem Noah and then some of the other
Guys that played back in the day and I don’t even mean my day I mean in the early earlier days you know the the 80s and the 70s and the 60s stuff like that and so I think what you’re going to see from the folks who are commenting as I
Already see it what you might see from herb is that a lot of recency bias because what did you bring up Sean at the beginning of this is that you know if you want to go and look at some of the best players in White Sox history
They all played back during World War won half them are dead six of the 11 retired numbers that Unfortunately they have passed and then if you go down to the next what I think the next the maybe 10 or so guys that whose numbers aren’t retired but are War leaders in franchise
History half of those guys played you know in in the 1910s and stuff like that too which listen does Ed Walsh deserve to uh be in the Ring of Honor absolutely he does but is any are you going to sell any tickets by hey come to Ed Walsh day
At the ballpark in 2029 like I just don’t think that that’s going to really Jazz Folks up and so that’s why I think herb is saying someone like Germaine die and your reaction might be what it is because of the numbers hey there’s 25
Guys you got to get to before you get to Germaine die but I think herb is like hey let’s get somebody who’s gonna who’s gonna make some excitement here so I’m gonna meet in the middle with the next player that I want to talk about and
That’s Belton Bill Melton uh uh who is one of the uh most uh accomplished players in franchise history from a statistical standpoint uh also maybe maybe the white sock should have done kind of what they did what the Cubs did with number 31 and retired number 14
Twice on the same day for kerko uh and Bel and Bill but uh that’s a guy who I think you you’re still gonna have some folks who remember seeing him play uh back in the 70s um obviously deserves it from a statistical standpoint could come to the event and still be uh honored
There so there are some guys uh definitely from those early 20th Century teams that deserve it but Belton Bill uh is a guy from the 70s and he’s not the only one but there’s a guy a guy from those 70s teams that I think definitely
Deserves to have his name up there in a Ring of Honor okay I’m jumping in because Belton bill was a pleasure to work with uh back in the day at Fox Sports that I led work with him he’s like hey ly how you doing he was the
Best uh but also he should be in mainly because he dated Barbara Eden Bo bring period okay for people don’t know who Barbara Eden she Genie I Dream of Genie oh okay um still still with us I think too is she still stuck in the thing no she’s still alive
They got her out okay yeah um so here’s maybe the question that I do want to ask because as Maz man’s bringing up Appling apparicio those guys are in right if you’ve had your jersey retired you are in you don’t have to Old a and pays
Doesn’t have to give up the you know make up the fight anymore he’s already in um but is this to then avoid Jersey retirements right because the Bulls were pretty thin on just number of jerseys re uh numbers retired um the socks have 11 um we’ve always brought up that maybe
The 13th number retired would be Azie gan’s 13 uh we always thought that Jose Abu would probably get the chance to get his 79 retired um Abu would probably be a Ring of Honor person because again you’re taking in the personal accomplishments of the 2020 Al MVP um
But we still retiring jerseys with this like if you are picturing the white socks Ring of Honor you’re still retiring numbers yes I mean why not it could be two separate things right okay but also mov forward it would have to be exclusive it had to be the best of the
Best I would think and Jose’s part of that yeah abu’s obviously I don’t think anyone’s gonna complain about that the only thing is that we gota wait for him to retire he’s still he’s still an active player uh but with his multiple MVPs his multiple silver Sluggers his
Rookie of the year his MVP 79 I think is an easy one and will be a number that is retired uh so yeah Jose Abu deserves to be in the Ring of Honor let’s go to some of the old guys because I I think that I
Could save some of the guys that are in the middle I could even save Chris Sale but like there are some old guys that I understand maybe won’t sell some tickets but Joe Jackson was extremely uh Infamous I guess but he was extremely talented as a baseball player uh 14th in
War over five play uh five years had 27.8 war with the Chicago White Socks uh Joe Jackson was one of the best players uh in Major League Baseball at the time uh led the league in total bases in 1916 with the whes White Soxs uh was the
Player on that 1919 team uh I understand that obviously again the we probably shouldn’t be giving uh the guys who threw the World Series some shine but also has enough time passed right I I I don’t know I think Joe Jackson probably gets should deserve discussion Ed Walsh
Who’s a Hall of Famer as well uh he missed out on that team but he absolutely deserve no jersey retired but Ed Walsh deserves to be in the Ring of Honor uh Eddie Cott as well he was on the 1917 team huh yes I agree oh uh
Eddie Cott uh he was on the 199 team through 306 Innings I feel like he should be in the Ring of Honor uh Eddie Collins too uh Ed Collins is third in war Luke Appling 77 and a half War Frank Thomas 68.3 War Eddie Collins 66.8 War
Nelly Fox 47.4 War uh Eddie Collins I think deserves some uh some some love and then finally uh red Faber uh just to round out all the old people uh from Loris College red Faber uh he was uh on the white socks from 194 to
1933 uh so 20 years with the team uh I think obviously uh just that length of time with a team and how good he was as a player uh Joe Jackson Eddie Cott Eddie Collins and red Faber should be in the in in the Ring of Honor and to that’s
Funny um yes Joe Jackson should be in for stepping out it was good and is she really going out with her too um with him but those guys the buck Weavers and these Joe Jackson and Eddy ccat were banned for life are they alive right now
H right they’re not alive so they can be they’re eligible let’s go so it’s not banned forever it’s banned for life of baseball so put their put them in the Ring of Honor because yes what they did and some of them Buck Weaver contested until he died that he had nothing to do
With the uh eight-man out uh scheme and Joe Jackson was illiterate didn’t know what he was doing but he still had a great World Series Eddie ccat was part of the plan so he uh should you know have some pause on his 1919 uh activities that he did there for the
Black Sox team but I think you know they’ve passed now their contributions to the white sock are well known and 100% with red favor and Walsh too so I think they’re all should be in the red uh the white sock Ring of Honor yeah absolutely and uh I I think
You know I think the thing that I would be wanting to point out necessarily is maybe not so much the early days when where the stats back them up right all you got to do is go to baseball reference and see all the black and white photos that that that show you
That you know those guys from those teams deserve to be in because from what they did from a statistical standpoint and then obviously you’ve got the the the recency you know bias of the guys who played in the 90s and the 2000s and the 2010s who everybody talking about
This ourselves included watched them play know know how much they meant to the team in the moment let’s let’s not forget those 50s teams though because those teams were uh you know those those teams that were managed by L Lopez won a ton of games and then also those 70s and
80s teams 70s had just a lot of really good players on them and then that 1983 team that that that went ahead and and and you know competed for a pennant so um those three teams I think need to be represented as well guys like you know
Guys like wilver wood guys like Dick Allen guys like uh you know Chad lemon uh guys guys like guys like Ron KD you know I mean these you know we’ve already talked about Baines and Fisk as being kind of no ERS but um those 70s teams
And and that and those early 80s teams definitely need to be represented as well as the guys from the 50s um that that played with Fox and apparicio I had Wilbur wood so we we’ll get to Wilbur in a second we’ll get to some of those 70s
And 80s guys and maybe some of the 50s guys as well um but I think Bennett asked the 1919 team is that one single entry I brought this up to you yesterday I guess it’s more of an Infamous inclusion but should should they be included should should the 1917 team the
2005 team and the 190 six team right uh all have their own inclusions because they’re Champions the Bulls only included the 9596 team because of the 702 wins yep 73 72 72 72 72 wins um so I mean what do we make of Team inclusions
And what would a team have to do to get that honor well go ahead Vinnie I think I think it makes sense for the reason probably that the Bulls did it which is you know we might not put Steve Kerr in but boy it’d be nice to or Steve Kerr in
Some way we might not put Luke Longley and Ron well you know Ron Harper in but it’d be nice to include them in some way so folks can get kind of that you know Nostalgia trip kind of a little bit and so I think 2005 you’d probably think
About the same way right like yeah Mark burley’s going in Paulo’s going in you might get you know you D will be there eventually pinski will be there eventually but like I don’t know if you know I don’t know if Dustin hermanson’s going in but boy it’d be nice to have
Him come on down for a day and and get him around Round of Applause and have his name be included when you look up who’s been honored you know guys like you know you you maybe maybe Jose contes does make it at one point but is El luk
Is not gonna be individually in the Ring of Honor but hey let’s remember what what L did for the white socks so I think that kind of thing is a good thing I would be against 1919 because they’re famous for a bad thing um you know what
I mean I think that that probably is casting a negative light upon what you’re trying to celebrate but there are lot of players on that team who maybe could be included as we just talked about the 2005 team 100% they had a 99 win regular season and then steamroll to
The best record in playoff history tied with the Yankees I believe at 11 and one so yes biest that is literally the best record in Major League Baseball history of the Wild Card era it is what’s the best day of your life it’s but that is
It’s true no it’s October 26 2005 it doesn’t it they are one of the best teams when to when you know when the Dolphins like celebrate that somebody finally lost in the regular season the ones who are still alive just because they per they have the best record of
All time in in the NFL if you have the all-time best record in baseball and playoff baseball history you would definitely celebrate that and put that in the Ring of Honor and have a a shingo tatoo come back who who is basketball’s equivalent to the 1972 Dolphins
Um I don’t know the 1995 1996 Bulls no they they’re good but they won the 72 se3 n okay but does it not mean a thing unless that they have the ring and they didn’t have the ring so what are we talking about here okay um that’s why
They say it 72 and 10 is the best record if you want a championship right that’s what I’m saying so the the equivalent to the the Miami Dolphin like the the Warriors equivalent is the Patriots team that went undefeated in the regular season and lost to the Giants yeah but
Even then the Bulls record is no longer standing the 73 win Golden State Warriors have claimed to the best regular season record Don’t Mean a Thing unless it the ring okay all right so no one’s beaten the white sock record and it was in the playoffs too okay but okay
M Vinnie and then I’ll ask you this who who’s the baseball equivalent to the 1972 Miami Dolphins well 1927 Yankees okay I’m not sure how we got off on this track because I think the point is that the the the uh whatever year Warriors that won 73 games is certainly worthy of
Inclusion in the Warriors Ring of Honor and the 2005 White Soxs are the no-brainer inclusion in the White Sox Ring of Honor whether either of those teams won a World Series or not they are the best teams in recent memory uh for those for those Fran and I think that’s
The point yes Herb without a doubt the 2005 white sock would be part of the white sock Ring of Honor yes all right I got a no other team and no other individual team I mean I don’t know I think was a special the 06 team
Who beat the Cubs well no but you’re not just you’re not just honoring good teams you gota they have to have accomplished something and so I think 83 somewhere down the road right would be included in that again I think 59 would definitely be included in that 59 they won the
Pennant I mean that doesn’t have hey how many times do I have to tell you this how many times this team has made the playoffs in uh in 123 years Sean okay so what we’re going to include all all 13 playoff teams in then no but you should
Include the ones that made it that made it a certain distance think about this Sean too like in Chicago at that time there was a dir of playoff teams like from the from I think like the 70s until 83 there was not a lot of playoff teams
In the City inclusion the white socks in 83 and if you count the sting before that were kind of like oh yeah here we go playoffs time so it’s 83 white socks 84 Cubs 85 Bears and then we started the ball rolling now we’re in that that lull
Again so yes 83 that was a big time team you started the ball rolling and then the Bears didn’t make the playoffs after 85 or did they make it an 86 no the Bears they made it they made in6 and then they then no playoff team made it
Until the Bulls in ‘ 91 true it’s like a sevene gap bears made the playoffs most of the 80s if not they got killed by the 49ers and they destroyed bear weather like in 1988 but they the Bears are really damn good in the 80s like really damn
Good 88 yeah and the Bulls were making the playoffs they were just losing to the Celtics and the Pistons yeah um I don’t know what the hell I’m thinking of that um okay uh the Cubs made it an 89 they did yes okay what weren the Hawks in the
Stanley Cup in in 90 yes they lost to the pengs two or three 91 yeah um I don’t know where I was gonna go with this I don’t know I don’t know you poo pooed the idea of the 59 and 83 teams being in there yeah well again they’re not I I I
I it makes sense for the three World Series teams or maybe they’re the first class yeah they should go in first yeah but just eventually I’m saying yeah but I mean didn’t did every single one of the the 90s Bulls team go in no it was just one specific team so
Far right okay yeah but so first class we’re putting in all three World Series to no I would put in 05 first class yeah recency bias I don’t know sure I mean but you’re trying to sell tickets aren’t you I I guess I in this fake scenario though my my my worry isn’t
Selling tickets I’m not trying to to come on down Phill up guaranteed R field as we honor the 1906 World Champion thank God we have an 85% capacity or it was such a great year here here uh let’s go to Wilbur wood uh I got
One one other pitcher too that I want to bring up but uh from 1967 to 1978 uh in 578 games over 2,500 Innings Wilbur wood had an RA of 3 18 uh two top three finishes in the Sai Young two top 10 finishes for the MVP uh and even
Throw in uh one more top five uh finish for the Sai Young and from 1971 to 1972 to 1973 uh he was one of if not the best pitchers in the American League Wilbur wood uh shout out your rule we’ll give Wilbur wood some Ring of Honor love also
Dustin Hermanson 10th in White Sox history in wow how about that on two years that’s two years 66 games or something like that Anthony schark ninth and Jesse Crane That ruins everything Anthony get a home run too didn’t he no you’re thinking of Anthony ronado oh ronado he did at Milwaukee
Just like Mark no he did it aty um so here’s the thing da Dave baresa asking uh you know nobody putting in Bobby Janks uh Luke’s also saying Jeff Blum and Ring of Honor I guess we just have to put the 2005 team in we put the 2005
Team in those guys get in so so 10th in White Sox history ER Dustin Hermanson can get in Cliff pit can get in Duke can get in Jose conz with his softball hands uh can get in and herbs Germaine D selection could get in um yeah I don’t
Know about really good like like I guess I’m just trying to picture the first like three classes I don’t think Ron K uh I think he probably would I mean he’s got rookie of the year he can make the actual building of the Ring of Honor
With his back and but he could construct it yeah so the first first three first F first class we’ll put the 11 retired numbers in and then Hawk Azie Al Lopez that’s the first Class Bill Bill V over Al Lopez no four of them I want to
Be Sean Sean’s shaving this down let let’s keep this or maybe rub Foster maybe kick kick out Lopez out and put Ru Foster you’re kicking out the winningest manager in team history yeah why can’t you just add another name yeah arbitrary list that we’re making did you already
Did you already make a graphic Sean is that what it is all right fine we’ll put we’ll put [ __ ] who Bill V in you want yes he’s a in the whole point is he’s just going to be on the second class I mean it’s not like we’re not putting him in you’re
The one that’s splitting hairs here Sean I’m just trying to be a little bit more selective maybe maybe have more of a definitive class it just seems like you know he would have no other first class uh guy over a second class person he would have no other way of being on a
List because he wasn’t a player so he his number couldn’t be retired so Bill ve deserves some type of recognition in that first class or the second class either way make a case for him to be in the first class though I’m trying to keep
Three people in and you guys are like oh put them in no one’s going to give me a who Hawk yeah Azie alen Hawk there you go okay all right aie and haw there’s one name that we as a non-player who we have not brought up yet I think I know
What you’re talking about who probably almost definitely needs to be on there and that would be Kenny Williams oh I’m not saying first class or anything but I understand that folks again to to discuss recency bias folks not happy with him uh at the moment but
He was the guy he was the GM of the only team that’s won uh a World Series for this franchise in the last hundred years yeah Kenny is the only General Manager who win a championship for the White Sox other people didn’t the general manager’s position wasn’t a thing in the
17 or the 806 that’s why I put Germaine Dy in too because he’s the only MVP in White Sox history for the for the World Series it it was just it was just whatever uh players could travel by train from Iowa um Okay so let’s let’s make the second class
Four players okay uh four players will will include uh Nancy fost bvac Ed farmer or do you want to put does Ken count in the 2005 team is the 2005 team also beat included in the first class in the first class yeah probably should so
Then we’ll just we we’ll put Ken in the first class all right so so Ken’s in there because he’s going in with the 2005 team um so Ed farmer Bill VEC and Nancy fost are your your non-players in the second class three players to define the second class who is it just three
Yes and and we’re not going to count a Bru and Chris Sale I think those guys are are clear obvious Ring of Honor guys um well then I would go across the the generations then I would pick an early guy and then Bill Melton and then Robin that
Works so saber or something like that yeah one of Walsh Collins Faber one of those guys and you know go create a create a nice spectrum of of Team history Yeah well yeah hey why don’t we do that then why don’t we take Ed Walsh and Eddie Collins well Ed Walsh I guess
Is the least uh what’s it called uh controversial so we’ll take Ed Walsh we’ll do Ed Walsh Robin Ventura and Bill Melton Eddie Collins didn’t do anything he was college boy he was part of not doing the chain the cheating should put him in there above Ed Walsh or you could
Put all three EDS in it what you could have a whole class of EDS you could have Eddie Collins Ed Walsh Eddie Cott and Ed farmer yeah maybe we’re missing out all right uh Luke Luke’s also got three guys that we haven’t brought up Lamar Hoy Jack McDow Bobby Thigpen uh those are
Those are I guess names that could be later but I mean if you’re taking career achievements uh they had moments but they really didn’t have I guess length you I know Bobby Thigpen leads the uh team in saves but saves is also not a stat that’s been counted for a long time
And what is what what do saves actually mean I don’t know one more name that hasn’t been brought up yet again not for immediate but definitely worthy oeo Mago does he I mean his years here were pretty damn good if they he would have stayed healthy in 04 they would have won the
World Series earlier mago’s 17th in batting War uh above Harold Baines so there you go um if if that if that means anything um Sherm Lawler also above mags same with Willie cam from the 1923 to 1931 those are I guess other names above mags whove never heard of Willie cam
Before Willie cam I don’t even know what third I put in that’s not a player that will be way down the line is Jee Honda oh yes no that’s a good one I mean we should have uh Greg Braggs back here to do the hold numbers again
Man with that Chan Honda you got we got the sodfa anybody else you want to nominate from from the last from the last 20 years or so 20 years or so can we get you want to put Steve Perry in there just for his contributions in 2005
No song about I mean Journey doesn’t want him I’ll take Steve Perry song about the trit from a San Francisco guy which he did that song Eventually for the Giants too right uh a song about Detroit from a San Francisco team from a San Francisco guy about a
Chicago team that’s really really good why why was that the song CU they got because they weren’t supposed to stop believing yeah I think they’re making fun of it initially with it was a creedy Rowan and Pinsky at a bar and then it became the theme because they started
Winning hell yeah hey I mean I I I became a huge fan of don’t SLE in 2005 I mean I was never a bigger fan of that song than 2005 that’s for you got sick of it immediately yeah all right that’s gonna do it for for this uh experience
We’ll Define this uh maybe they’ll even uh consult us to do the Ring of Honor once they establish this I mean this would be a nice social graphic for for next week I I would imagine all right well we’ll try to get that it sounds like a good one don’t you think first
Class yeah so well that again that’s just the list of the retired numbers but you know well all right we’ll we’ll Define big big thing yeah it would be fun I think people would respond to it all right all right Lawrence you got that
You got to make a you GNA make a big thing just big that’s the that’s the instructions I’m providing just a big thing you got you got this oh I got it okay all right that’s Vinnie duber you can follow him at Vinnie duber he’s our chg White Sox beat riter that’s herb
Lawrence you can follow him at eor wall 23 he’s our chgo White Sox Community leader thank you everyone for hanging out with us make sure you hit that Thumbs Up Button uh thank you everyone who was being active participants to giving us people to talk about uh in the
Chat like Luke other Sean Dave baresa Matt Alejandro have a great weekend uh and Antonio will end with this one I think it’s a good note riby and rhubarb should be put in there uh not Southpaw uh because he’s still active but riby and rhar should absolutely be in there
Can we get can we get can we get Andy the clown in there too maybe absolutely we’ll get Andy the clown actually Andy the clown gonna be on the show on Monday at 3:30 so uh so so be be there or be square Goodbye we all sitting like the man yeah
3 Comments
Ring of Honors are worthless
Hall of Fame is better. Herb representing U of I hoops?
Pants rowland $ Fielder jones