Welcome back to The Yours, Mine, Away! Podcast.
This week we are joined by Sports Psychologist, Podcast host & GK, Keval Patel.
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Today I’ve got a a really exciting episode one that I I feel like I’m going to learn a lot from and I think you should learn a lot from I’ve actually got a sports psychologist in who specializes in the world of goalkeeping I’d love to welcome caval Patel fingers
Crossed after today I can maybe bust a few mths and uh change your perception on things professionals don’t ever really talk about what they go through on the pitch you avoid fear yeah because the fear is making another mistakes you do everything in your power to avoid
That from happening again mindset is the one thing that separates the guys at the top from the guys below can enjoy playing in front of big crowds and enjoying that aspect of the game and all the the money and the the fancy cars and everything that comes with it on the
Flip side of it the level of sacrifice and the level of dedication and discipline that you have to have is is mesmerizing it’s a dog fight you can be the best friend of the other goalkeeper because because of the goalkeeper Union we will treat each other with respect
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Episode hello everyone and welcome back to the yours M away podcast with me Mark Howard today I’ve got a really exciting episode one that I feel like I’m going to learn a lot from and I think you should learn a lot from I’ve actually got a sports psychologist in who specializes in the
World of goalkeeping and golfers which is another one of my Keen aspects uh I’d love to welcome uh caval Patel welcome mate how are you yeah very good mate thanks for having me on the show no thank you very much for coming in uh as
I said to you off air uh I’ve always been uh I’ve never used a psychologist myself so I’ve always been a little bit skeptical but uh I’m really excited to to see what you can uh impart on me and obviously vice versa the the knowledge
That I have of the game impart on you no 100% think you’re probably right to be skeptical as well it’s a weird world that most people don’t understand I’m still learning about it myself as you go on that Journey but fingers crossed after today I can maybe bust a few myths
And uh change your perception on things yeah no definitely I think you will uh you’ve got your own own podcast as well uh you’ve got your the goalkeeper mindset podcast can you just tell people a little bit about that yeah so I started the podcast in in lockdown when
No one could really go anywhere and I just started interviewing goalkeepers like I love goalkeeping myself I am one and I just started interviewing reaching out to my network and interviewing goalkeepers professional goalkeepers guys in the uh national league non- league and just talking about mindset
Like I think it’s one thing that’s never really been spoken about in the world of goalkeeping which is the psychology behind it and I uploaded some clips onto Instagram and Twitter and you know people kind of resonated with some of the stuff that was being said because I think professionals don’t ever really
Talk about what they go through on the pitch and they don’t talk about strug yeah exactly and it’s it’s a stigma thing isn’t it you don’t want to like show off or portray weakness to people yeah so you’re worried that if you share that with people they’re going to like
Latch onto that or or use that as a way to get at you in games maybe or in training so I started the podcast to kind of give people that insight into the mind of a goalkeeper playing in front of whether it’s a th000 people or 880,000 people and it grew from there
And uh yeah yeah now I found myself here sat with you yeah no honestly I’ve listened to quite a few of them and that and what I would say is I’ve really enjoyed listening to them because it it’s more about you listening to people other people’s steps than you telling
People how to do it where I always thought that like uh someone in Psychology would analyze you and then come back to you and say right you need to change this about what you do this isn’t right you’ve said that but do you mean that and I’ve always been a bit
Skeptical on that sense but when I’ve listened to you it’s the absolute opposite you’re just listening it and you’re asking the right question question to get the right bit of information to find out that personality 100% And I’ve always been of the opinion particularly when I work with
Goalkeepers it’s not about telling it’s about guiding so if there is a better way of seeing a situation and I know there might be a better way from from my lived experience as well rather than telling them what to do you ask questions in a way which might help them
See things from a different perspective and I think in any Walk of Life whether it’s goalkeeping Outfield Players golf or even just general life itself there’s always different perspectives and different ways of looking at things and if you can guide someone to see something in a different way you might
Completely change their outlook on the entire situation I mean we before we started recording we spoke about mistakes didn’t we about how my my take on dealing with mistakes might be different to yours and how I’m sure we’ll dive into this but throwing the stone away and I love that because it’s
Like a a it’s a metaphor isn’t it the Stone’s a metaphor for taking the weight away off your shoulders and I love that stuff and I I promote that so but that’s different that’s not something I would have thought about so that doesn’t make make me wrong it doesn’t make you right
Or vice versa it just means that we’ve all got different ways of dealing with things because we’re human beings yeah and we’ve all got voices in our own heads we all think about everything that we do we all analyze everything that we do uh more some people just more
Critical against themselves and others uh as we were saying before like I’ve got my own coping mechanisms that I’ve used for my whole career and they seem to have worked and I’ve managed to to forge a bit of a career and and and build on that and manag to just impart a
Bit of calmness because everyone can rely on me that even if I do make a mistake it doesn’t really phase me I’ll just crack on and uh I think that that’s like obviously in goalkeeping that’s the hardest thing to learn but it’s also there’s always room for improvement in
That 100% yeah I mean I did a workshop recently with like a group of goalkeepers and the one question that everyone wanted an answer to was dealing with mistakes because it’s like the loneliest thing that can happen on a football pitch I mean when you concede
And you make a mistake everyone walks up runs by the halfway line and you are a good 30 or 40 yards away from everybody else and you can feel those eyes on you as well 1 million per there’s no hiding places and you know it from from the
Level that you’re playing at and again we spoke off air about the fans behind the goal and the booing and all of those those shouts and those shouts then start to Cloud that that language that you talk about in your head that selft talk and then all of a sudden you’ve got that
Spiral of negative thinking am I good enough they’re telling me that I’m not good enough they’re saying horrible things to me maybe maybe I’m not I don’t deserve to be here maybe I’m not good enough to play at this level and then that that takes itself out in its per in
The performance you start changing the way that you create supporting angles you start changing your start position you start parrying more than you catch play safer 100% you avoid fear yeah because the fear is making another mistakes you do everything in your power to avoid that from happening again and I
Find it fascinating like you watch guys at the top level how when they’re under pressure or when they’re being scrutinized the decision- making changes like we just said about those like avoidance behaviors that safety Behavior they’ll Parry more than they catch and I’m not I’m not going to say names
Obviously but you just watch Premier League football and you can see it every single week and it’s almost a case of like okay they’re operating at 90% because they’re in the top 1% of goalkeepers in the world yeah what if we got them to play with freedom what if we
Got them to deal with the crowd the manager the negative opinions how far could they really go how good could they really be and I think that’s where people like me come into the equation it’s like you’re operating here but you could be operating there and that difference could be the difference
Between you playing in again respectfully the national league or playing in League one or the championship Y and that’s the difference there not from my experience anyway from a technical and tactical point of view guys in the Prem and the championship they understand the game to a similar
Level and technically they can compete at a similar level yeah mindset is the one thing that separates the guys at the top from the guys below I think from my perspective I don’t know what you think about no I I totally agree that uh even myself if you put me in a training
Session with some of the top Premier League goalkeepers I could hold my own I wouldn’t be as good as them in all aspects but some of them I would be and uh like regarding like handling I reckon I could catch as many as Edison catchers in training but I physically can’t do
What he does and I also haven’t got the bravery and the backing to play the style that he plays uh and I think that does come from different Comfort levels one of the biggest ones would be Financial uh someone like Allison or Edison uh they can afford to make mistakes
Because they haven’t got the the worry of paying a mortgage and I think that’s a a huge weight off their mind compared to someone playing in the national league that knows that could be their last game if they make a mistake and they or that they they might not be able
To pay that bill at the end of the month if they’re not starting every week and I think that that’s the biggest noticeable difference in football in goalkeeping is that the higher up the leagues they can play with that freedom and less pressure M because they haven’t got that worry in
The background that makes sense yeah I can I can see what you’re saying in that in that sense I think touching on the two guys that you just mentioned there I think as well from a management perspective they’re obviously playing for two very well respected managers who have basically in interviews they’ve
Openly said I don’t care if my goalkeeper makes a mistake with the ball at his feet I’m giving him the license to play because the goalkeeper is Central to the way that we’re going to build out from the back and if you watch those two teams they are absolutely
Central to creating space creating overloads you know imbalances in the opposition they’re massive on that I mean you watch them play and pass I mean some of the passes they do are just ridiculous it’s unbelievable yeah like the pass into Midfield are just crazy but you go further down National League
You know maybe Ryman Premier Division managers are under pressure every single week because that club winning that three points is a difference between the club earning 100 Grand or being relegated and going bused and bigger clubs don’t necessarily have that worry so I think that also plays a role as
Well the pressure that the manager puts on the goalkeeper because is a more scrutinized position now also uh playing I found it easier in my career playing in front of larger audiences really uh only because it’s muffled noise it becomes White Noise oh yeah so the if
You play in front of 50,000 people you can’t hear an individual shout where when last year was playing in the national league you hear everything that everyone says and it becomes more personal but in the bigger stadiums on the bigger stages it’s just noise and I
Think that that plays a huge part in a a goalkeeper psychology in in our minds say it’s like if I can just hear a general booing that could be for anyone but if I hear someone shout my name personally and slate something like about how I play or about me as a person
I’m like I heard that yeah and that’s a different like that’s trying to evaluate a goalkeeper in the Premier League compared to a national league so different have you have you found it challenging then adapting to the bigger grounds because you’ve obviously gone from playing in the national league
Where the Crowds Are significantly smaller how have you adjusted to the new environments and I suppose The increased demands of the level as well because it might be slightly faster more physical I’m assuming yeah yeah I’ve spent a lot of my career in League one League two so
Naturally I found it it easier playing back in League two this year compared to last year it actually opened my eyes and I didn’t realize how tough it would have been dropping down levels and uh I found that the drop down surprised me more than going up uh I think that especially
We’ve got an unbelievable Squad at rexam that we’re all used to playing at a higher level so some of the grounds last year surprised us how bad they were or like the the Hostile nature they would have surprised us more last year than this year because we’ve got an
Experienced team that’s more is more used to playing at higher levels yeah and and I was exactly the same honestly my first five games last year I made two or three mistakes in games I was like that’s so uncharacteristic but I think the the the level of players but the
Level of referee and surprised me the the the away grounds they all surprised me uh and that took a while to adjust to but at the end of the day like that’s all self-improvement anyway and you do adjust to your your own background and your own scenarios it’s interesting you
Mentioned about the two three mistakes though when you drop back down the level because I think the expectation from most people find it easier exactly so let me ask you why why did you why did you perhaps struggle to maybe adapt back down to the level as opposed to some
Goalkeepers struggling to maybe adapt going up a level I think uh probably before signed for Rex I at Carlile and the year before it scum for I was in relegation fights every week so I got used to uh just keeping the ball out my net so then when you then sign for a
Team that should be at the top of the league and uh there’s more emphasis on if you make a mistake like you need your teammates to baow you out but if you’re a team at the bottom of the league and you make a mistake you’re probably going
To lose the game regardless but you gave it a good go you know what I mean so I think that that took a little bit to adjust to uh I found the stand of the referee and like in the in the league in League football you get protected more
As a goalkeeper you come for crosses you get a little bit more protection you drop to National League a ref don’t blow his whistle because he just don’t want any part of it and that surprised me yeah the the refering situation is definitely a factor I think maybe the
Pitches as well I mean when I speak to goalkeepers on a Ono one basis the conversation they might have with you know a premier league or a championship goalkeeper is very very different when we’re talking about certain topics compared to you know a non-league goalkeeper because the pitches for
Example the conditions I mean we’ve both played in non League you much higher higher up than me but you know when you turn up to a pitch and you see you know a water logged goal mouth or bumps in the pitch long yeah and the ref’s dropping the ball and it’s just staying
In the ground and you’re going I don’t fancy this today this is this is horrendous but at the top level they might not necessarily have to deal with that whereas in non League you’ve got to get yourself up for those games because there’s three points on the line yeah
For me I found that really really challenging when I was you know growing up as a kid because in my head the vision I’d always have had a football is playing on Lovely pitches Doo pitches you know in front of lovely fans who are all cheering for you but the reality is
When you get into football it’s just nothing like that at all and it’s so for me anyway I found it really hard to deal C and grim and dark it’s not it’s not colorful and bright green pictures and colorful kits everywhere it’s not samee exactly and it’s you know what it’s
Progressively got worse over the years I think when you’re a kid you overlook so much stuff you you just love being out there with your mates or with your team and flying around the goal making saves getting muddy as you get older you start to analyze and think about the game a
Lot more and it becomes more like a job as opposed to just something that you enjoy doing and you start to think about oh it’s minus one outside it’s cold today it’s going to be you know when you breathe it’s going to be Frosty or when you’re diving it’s going to hurt that
Little bit more and you’re more conscious of your injuries and you’re just more conscious of everything and you overanalyze everything and I think that takes away the enjoyment factor I don’t know what you think I’ve got a contradicting Theory to that so when I first started playing in goal and and
Realiz I was good I then saw goalkeeping as my job at I think I was 9 years old when I called myself a goalkeeper but I played football I did Athletics I did Karate for fun so every time I stepped in goal I was at work and I had to learn
And had to get better but everything else I did I’d play out in field I’d play out I played out in field for my my school my burrow my County I played center back but when I played for Arsenal Academy I played as a goalkeeper
And that was my job and I had that philosophy and as I’ve got older football’s become more fun because I feel like I’ve like Benjamin buttoned it I feel like I I work so hard to get to where I am I should now be reaping the
Benefits and enjoying how I play and why I play and uh I felt like that I had that mindset from really young but I knew that I didn’t know that I was ever going to make it but I knew that if I was going to try and make it it had to be
Work from from that age and it’s interesting you say that because a lot of people go the other way they really enjoy their youth and they really enjoy the Academy football Ticky taka kind of stuff and making tidy saves and nice neat technical sessions and then they
Get into men’s football whether it be non- leagal or professional and it’s literally about keeping the ball out the net dealing with the day-to-day politics and [ __ ] that football presents to a lot of people goalkeepers especially and it becomes a job to some of them it’s like wake up on Monday morning right
Training go home recover Tuesday training go home recover and for a lot of guys operating at the top level and and people at home probably won’t be able to relate to this because they only see the end product which is the game but it is to them a job like the the
Mental tax of being we spoke about this before being in a hotel on Christmas Day Boxing Day having to get yourself up for a game when you know all your friends are in front of the TV watching you or watching another game yeah you know New
Year’s Eve being in a hotel or you not not being with your family all these key moments which probably get exacerbated when you have kids as well you miss out on all of that stuff and I think it’s all well and great us talking about playing in front of 880,000 people or
Being an international but what about all of the sacrifice that you have to make to get to that point and it’s a ying and a Yang for me yeah you can enjoy playing in front of big crowds and enjoying that aspect of the game and all
The the money and the the fancy cars and everything that comes with it but on the flip side of it the level of sacrifice and the level of dedication and discipline that you have to have to operate at the the top level is it’s mesmerizing and watching the guys do it
Every single day is just fascinating I don’t know how they do it but they managed to do it but then on the contradiction to that I would say that um the dedication that we’ve had to give up why would we complain about training on Christmas day now because of we’ve
Gone through the hard bit so to get to wherever you are now whatever level you end up playing at so then say you’re training on Christmas Day and then throwing your arms up in the air and going I’m going to I’m not going to see
My kids for two hours you’ve given up so much already like why complain about that now just crack on and just like try and make the most of the career CU it’s so short anyway you may as well just go well this might be an enjoyable experience actually training on
Christmas Day might be fun and you you have to try and like turn a negative into a positive the whole time but it’s easy said than done and I totally get that but I think that becomes easier with age anyway that I’ve like I said I feel like I’ve reversed engineered what
I did because that worked for me and it’s still works for me to this day obviously still playing now at 37 and it’s amazing listening to you saying that because as soon as you said that the first thing that came to my mind was being out there on the grass with the
Lads coming in after training maybe being covered in mud and whatnot and you’ve had a great session a good blowout it’s Christmas day you’re all together you’re in the canteen maybe there’s a Christmas dinner on and it’s that sense of togetherness that you might enjoy and those that feeling of
Just being with other people who are in the same situation as you so I can see that and that that’s a really healthy way to look at it because I think the enjoyment factor is how you get through those tough moments in football and I think if you ask a lot of
Players either goalkeepers or outfi players they remember the good times more than they remember the bad times and that’s why everyone aspires to play professional football because of the stories that you get from having a life in the game no I totally agree right uh
We’re g to move on a little bit right so we’re g to go back to my quick fire questions uh there only a couple of stupid goalkeeper questions but then we can then get into your your own playing career so uh catch or Parry catch favorite goalie kit color oh shich retro
99 multicolored one multicolored yeah nice a gray with a red and the blue and the black padding down there nice the sharp on the front as well of course yeah I remember that kit uh play out from the back or kick it long I wish I
Could play out so kick it long but I’d like to play out yeah uh who’s your favorite ever goalkeeper Edwin vesar yes finally someone’s agreed with me I love that uh long sleeve shirt or got short sleeve shirt long sleeve yeah old school yeah did you pull them up a bit or under
Arour underneath or under arour underneath always base layer and then a slight roll up so there’s a little bit Skin showing joart kind of Vibes yeah nice I like that right um who’s the best goalkeeper in the world right now for me Edison I think Edison just everything about how he plays football
He can save it he can catch it and his distribution is Aimbot and his mentality ah acceptance Fearless just plays yeah absolute Vibes like you said earlier having pep behind you must help like yeah right uh Head tennis or two touch Head tennis extreme Head tennis yeah
Yeah two boxes side by side 2v2 yeah three touches between the pairs big money on it yeah nice that right and then uh it’s the last minute of a game you can save a penalty to win the game or you can go up and score a goal what
Are you doing save a penalty to win the game yeah 1 million per yeah I’d love to SC I’ve never scored neither have I yeah neither have I still think saving a penalty in the last minute to it’s what you do is it it’s your bread and butter
Like I think it’s the odds when the odds are stacked against you it just feels so much better y That’s What I feel anyway I’m sure some people agree uh disagree with me but that’s just that’s just my view on it yeah no fair enough right uh
As I said uh I’ve got some goalkeeper questions for you uh when did you realize you was a goalie oh you know what I was playing Sunday league and I was in a team at Harris Mary I’ll definitely shout them out it was a great club and we had some
Good lads in there um who were attached toies I think Chelsea Chelsea and Arsenal were the two main ones on where all the lads were kind of going to when they got to under n level so I couldn’t get in the team I was a striker a
Terrible Striker at that as well and uh I just couldn’t get into the team so my dad my dad played in goal when he was younger and um he played for everus withth Town kind of when they were you know I’m talking years ago when they were like back Semi-Pro not even
Semi-Pro kind of level he said go and goal I said okay fine but the a team had a really good goalkeeper he was on the books at Chelsea so I went in goal for the B team and I played in this game and I just remember diving around in mud you
Know saving the ball shouting and screaming at people it was raining pissing down with rain and I absolutely loved it and in that game I saved two penalties and it was I just remember that feeling admiration that everyone had for you yeah and it was like well
Done I thought you know what this is better than any goal that I’ve ever scored and I thought maybe I’m at the wrong end of the pitch maybe I actually belong here yeah and I remember feeling different I felt different to other people on the pitch I felt special cuz I
Had gloves on no one else did I had um you remember the old school Tim Howard kit the gray one from man united my dad bought me that cuz I was a massive I’m a massive man united fan and I wore that in all my games I felt like Tim Howards
Yeah and at that game there was a Chelsea Scout there now I’m from South Asian Heritage and The A Team goalkeeper was also South Asian as well on the books of Chelsea so that Scout called up the dad of The A Team saying oh your son had a really good game we’re really
Looking forward to having him in at the Academy and the dad said that wasn’t my son that played in that game oh no way and that’s how I fell into a mistaken identity but literally literally so then did you then get a follow-up phone call
From that I did yeah I got invited to train with Chelsea and I had an initial onewe trial which I thought went quite well and they saw something in me it’s probably something to do with the fact that I was a really early Bloomer in
Terms of my height I was a good like foot taller than everybody else it really helped me and um I ended up extending my trial for around six months um got to six month got to the six-month Mark um and they didn’t offer me anything probably because I wasn’t
Technic te Al where I needed to be and my mindset wasn’t there I was just happy to be at Chelsea I saw I already seen myself visualized myself with the kit on yeah and I wasn’t actually signed so that was my first learning curve in football of applying yourself working
Hard and never getting comfortable with where you’re at yeah so I got released from there and it was the most harrowing experience of my life ask getting released is horrible but I was speaking to a goalkeeper the other day a young goalkeeper that plays out in Ireland and
Uh he had a setback recently and I was like honestly setbacks make you stronger they honestly do because you they prepare you for how like real life is and how football gets gets worse because the setbacks are harder to take obviously at such a young age at
That moment you don’t realize that like it’s probably for the best long term yeah and I think it’s all about stacking experience and I always think about stacking experience so Chelsea the learning point for me was wherever you are you have to work football is a
Business and you are a number I know we talk a lot about player well-being now but you are still a number and you are replaceable at any stage so Chelsea that was the learning point I then went to Watford and spent two years at Watford great experience Nick Cox with my
Academy manager he’s now at man united great learning environment but they bought another goalkeeper in to my age group when I was kind of the established number one and it was just me and him competing and that was the first time I learned how to officially compete with a
Number two and a number one and I came out the wrong side of that and I ended up getting released yeah so then I realized from Watford the second learning point is whenever whatever club that you’re playing for it’s a dog fight you can be the best friend of the other
Goalkeeper because because of the goalkeeper’s union we all treat each other with respect but when we’re out on that grass me and you aren’t friends we are competing for that shirt and I I learned the hard way cuz I got released I got comfortable saying oh no you do
Two more or finish on the save yeah like I should have been I’m going to score in the top Corner every single time and make sure that I’m playing Saturday y I didn’t have that mindset so I stacked that level then I went to Wickham signed
At Wickham and Wickham I think for the guys that I work with there they’ll all attest to this it was the most unbelievable learning environment that I’ve ever been involved in um I signed at under 13s um by under 145s I was training with the first team um with
Martin Brennan really good friend of mine and um it was just unbelievable I mean you had Nikki ball there who played Four 500 like games in one league in the league Matt Ingram is obviously now at ho Jason Mooney who was the um tallest goalkeeper in Europe at one stage who
Went out to play in Ireland um Steve Arnold who’s obviously had a great career in the league like you just had four or five goalkeepers who were really really good to learn off in terms of what it takes to be a goalkeeper the mentality different abilities as well oh
Yeah I mean different styles I mean Stevie is a massive lad but he could move himself really fast Matt Ingram was really agile and neat Jason Mooney would come for crosses because of his height and his kicking was great and Nikki Nikki for me is probably the best best
Match day goalkeeper I’ve seen in League one League 2 from from what I’ve seen live yeah because he could turn up on a match day do three volleys or four volleys get warm and play and be man of the match and there’s me going into my
Game on a Saturday thinking I’ve got to do an hour and a half warm up I’ve got to have you know clean gloves brand new gloves brand new boots he would just turn up and play because that’s what he’d been exposed to it taught me that nothing has to be perfect in goalkeeping
It’s a game of imperfection yeah and just on my journey like at different points i’ learn different things that kind of stacked up and I got to got to stevenage and I felt like I was complete and then I had two really really hard years um in my scholar at stevenage I
Was a part-time scholar doing a levels at the same time that’s tough yeah it was it was really really tough because you have to balance your time Y and I was in one day or two days a week all the lads were kind of getting ahead of
Me and stretching me I was so they would have been on their B Tech National courses yeah and for me that was never an option cuz I I always wanted a plan B and thank God did because otherwise I wouldn’t be here with you know the
Psychology stuff but I just it was tough like I think anyone who went through a scholarship back back like 10 years ago nine years ago it was a lot different to what it is now you know scrubbing six sets of boots being out in the cold clearing pitches you know punishment
Runs if you lost on a Saturday I think those things really make you the person that you become and you build that resilience but because of the background that I came from and you know the life that I had you know that my parents given to me doing all that stuff was
Kind of like oh my God this is a shock to the system it really hit home hard and I fell out of love with the game for for quite some time y ended up going and playing School football and then did you find that your coaches at stevenage at
The time treated you differently because you was trying to better yourself education wise I don’t want to say they did but I think they did looking back on if you’re not there as much as the other players they will treat you slightly different because they haven’t seen you as much of
The week they don’t know your personality as much as they’ve learned the others like for me looking at it straight away I know in football you do get treated differently for that for trying to better yourself which is crazy and I think football is adjusting to that and
They are trying to make everyone better now it’s it’s more of a universal thing which is for the better but at that time it would have been a lot different you know what it was and even in the dressing room I didn’t feel ostracized but I would definitely say I felt left
Out at times because all the lads will be talking about stuff that happened maybe Monday or Thursday when I wasn’t in and I would just kind of be in the corner being that kind of part-time guy who turned up did a bit of training and then went home because they were all
Together all the time I was kind of the person that just tagged along I was almost like a an extended trialist yeah yeah I was going to say that it sounds that way that you would have been a trialist but you was contracted yeah and
I had I had the kit I had the registration forms I was a stevenage player but I never felt part of that group and I think when you walk out onto the grass and you feel that way and this is where the psychology started to come
Into my head you you do things in games and when things go wrong you feel like the finger is being pointed more at you because you never felt part of that unit anyway they haven’t got your back yeah and I never I don’t think I ever got to
A point where I felt comfortable playing in in that team I was there and we had some great times there with the guys I’m sit in touch with a few of them but I never felt connected and you know we talk about motivation and we talk about confid confidence so much in goalkeeping
Confidence and motivation come from connection and relationship to the group and the the the line of work that you’re in so when you have those two connection points or you don’t have those two connection points that influences everything that you do on the pitch and your response to those things but look I
Had some great experiences there fa youth cup third round against Wigan I was under under 16 at the time I got to playing it at at the ground managed to get a win and we ended up going to oakwell like you know you do get get
Some great moments schol but for me it was definitely more of a test as opposed to you know something that I really thrived in and enjoyed I reckon that made me stronger for the for the better of it and it was obviously doing your a levels and that you you went into
Psychology did you always know that that was the route was going down is that because of the life experience as well of the setbacks from Chelsea and Watford and Wickham yeah it was I knew at 16 if my my playing career didn’t pan out the
Way I wanted it to CU I was still dead set on being a a professional footballer I wanted to be a sports psychologist I knew and I remember one of the coaches asked me he said you know he went around the room and said you know what do you
Guys want to be and every single person said a footballer and I said I’d just like to play at the highest level that I can and I think when I delivered that answer I knew in my heart maybe professional football wasn’t going to be the career for me because I think you
Can have other talents and abilities but you do have to have a certain level of focus when you’re in the system AER in the you have that drive and that passion to get to where you want to get to and I think by the time I got to 17
18 I just don’t think I had it as much as other people did I still had it yeah but not at the level that was required yeah because my eyes were being turned towards you know the idea of you know working for myself or helping other people and giving back to to the
Goalkeeping community and the football community and those things interested me more than just turning up on a Saturday and you know going through my week preparing so I think going back to your original point about if I knew at 16 what I wanted to do absolutely I and I
Wouldn’t change it for the world now yeah but see like I now look at it and go on it’s amazing that you had that Insight because a lot of footballers now do their apprenticeships and they do their scholarships and they get to 17 or 18 they get released and it’s like what
Now and it’s like a it’s a big world out there and it opens their eyes and they’re scared of it and that’s where you get a lot of problems almost and obviously people chased that career and they chased the dream but like you had the insight to go right well just in
Case I’m going to do it from early and like full credit that’s amazing that you actually did that but again to reckon that hampered your career massively 100% And I have no shame in saying that and I don’t want to send the wrong message to people because it’s amazing though you
Should have a plan B I think you should but it did hamper me as well because I didn’t have the balance right when in preseason of my second year um it was me and the other goalkeeper competing um for the number one shirt I actually had
The shirt for the first I think six weeks before school started I was in an absolute flow you know that State of Mind where you get into where you’re in a game and things are just happening off Instinct you’re playing passes without thinking about it you’re making saves
You’re catching stuff you feel a million dollars on that pitch that sixth week we played Cambridge United away at their place under 18 fixture and I made a mistake in the game and I got subbed off halfway in the half which is really tough to deal with that’s horrible for a goalie
Goalies don’t get subbed no I know and I couldn’t understand why it happened at the time but I think regardless of what the manager decided to do because it’s his decision he’s the manager I didn’t agree with it but it happened so I just
Had to deal with it and I didn’t so I remember walking off the pitch I was really embarrassed all the parents are kind of going why is he being subbed off just because he made a mistake but you deal with it so I never recovered from
That and then my form just lands slided downwards and the other goalie got in I couldn’t get back in the team after that and I think you just go through moments don’t you but when your confidence is knocked to that level it’s hard to come back from then because obviously he’s
Almost giving you an out to go I don’t know if this is for me if this is the way I’m going to get treated you end up making it’s not I’m not saying you make an excuse but you you end up going is that really how it’s going to be and how
Do I change my own path then and obviously you you’ve end up doing yours but you’ve not then instead of the the other players that are in football and are totally in football they would have went I’ve got points to prove here and they might have changed their own
Outcome in football by going no I’m going to speak to manager tell him you’s done that wrong and give me another opportunity I wish I had that I wish I had that mentality but I was a victim and I I felt victimized because of the situation that I was in and being being
Part-time and not being involved with the lads and then obviously getting pulled out of a match halfway through for a mistake I felt victimized and I probably was but in those situations in football you know what it’s like because you’ve been through it things happen [ __ ] happens you have to respond to it
And it doesn’t matter whose fault it was or how you feel about it or what your thoughts are about it you have to just find a way to respond and get the best out of a bad situation and I think I never I never learned how to do that
Until that moment and then on top of that at that time I was obviously ramping up with school I had to balance my a levels with that and I just didn’t have the capacity to deal with my troubles in football and then balance that with the pressure of having to you
Know study really hard for a levels Y and then naturally just went downhill and I wish I had someone to kind of pick me up a psychologist maybe to come and say look you can do this yeah you’re going through a rough patch in football
But you know if you if you do these things and use these techniques you’re going to be all right and you’re going to get back to where you need to get to do do you feel like you accepted the mistakes and you accepted the being subbed off or do you feel like you
Dwelled on it no and I still think to this day I’m still very resentful and listen I’ve work with goalkeepers now in my private work where that’s happened to them and I understand their pain I understand how embarrassing and demoralizing that can be but like the advice that I never received myself I
Always say to them now it’s your opportunity to go and show him why he’s wrong yeah go and show him why he made the wrong decision and why he never should have crossed you you got to be an absolute Beast now you got to go into training every single day put a brave
Face On Smile deal with the [ __ ] and come out the other side fighting and if you do that you’ll get the reward you want because a lot changes in a week a month a year in football yeah that’s why I I again I’ll go back to me and make it
More like relevant to me but um I had that acceptance if I made a mistake or if I got dropped or if a club told me I’m not good enough I accept somehow I would shoulder it and go okay I don’t really like what you’ve said this is how
I’m going to solve my own situation and like even to this day I accept situations now I get obviously dropped a few times in the last few years and at the time you think like you’re frustrated and you’re angry within a couple of hours ago right okay how do I
How do I move on from this and I I don’t know obviously each individual is their own but that’s one of the things I just go okay right I’ll solve this how do I solve it and then I’ll look for my path but I think that came like like I said I
I my job at 9 years old was to play football as a goalkeeper I had that mindset of like okay if that’s not going to work how do I make that work and like I’ve used that my whole career and we’ll go on to mistakes in a minute but I
Think that just accepting as a goalkeeper you’re you’ve got faults you’re going to make mistakes is is the the best and easiest thing or not the easiest thing it’s the best thing you can learn from early did you have that mindset then when when Ben came in because obviously you know you were
Thriving the team was thriving at the point you know where you were top of the league the expectation was you were going to get promoted and then almost from the outside looking in it spanner had been throwing in the works Ben was coming in and the Assumption was because
Of the level that he had played at he was obviously going to be the number one how when he came in you saw him in the dressing room and the conversation was had with you what was that feeling like for you yeah at first obviously uh I
Make no bones about I wasn’t happy but I I managed to straight away go if this is what it takes to get us promoted that’s the bigger picture and I I managed to remove my own personality from it and my own ego and just go what’s the best for
The team is this going to make us a better team is this going to make me better long term because I’ve got no like quals in saying if we got promoted I got another year so the bigger picture for me was a lot bigger than saying I’m
Angry for six games so I managed to just go right okay how how how do I turn this into a positive let me be the best cheerleader to Ben I can be and make sure we do get over the line and if if we didn’t get over the line didn’t get
Promoted I would tell you a whole different story right now but we did so that’s how football works and that’s how I managed to just go right how can I make this the a situation that is good for me and not look at it as a negative
And that is a really really healthy way of looking at it because the situation for you was never going to change was it he was always going to come in and he was always going to play but the response of right how can I get the best
Out of this situation now which was support him to then get your extra year and I I remember watching some of the games on TV I was thinking I can’t tell if he’s pissed off or not but then I remembered you know all of the stuff
That I learned in my career when you’re not playing you’ve got to be the best friend you got to make sure the balls are pumped you got to make sure you’re out there on time and you got to make sure that they’re prepared to go and
Deliver for the group because if I was playing I would want the same thing done for me Y and it’s that like reciprocated respect even the fact that if if you don’t do things properly if I didn’t do things properly and I would have been crap in training the the goalkeeping
Uh uh community that we did have at the club with Ben and Rory Watson and Rob Lon and Aiden Davidson it would have been a bit sour and people would have treated me differently which is then you’re treading on eggshells which affect someone else’s mindset or
Performance and then even on a match day I would have still been on the bench but if I’d have warm fuzzy up crap and then if he’d have had a crap game and I would have looked happy about it you just turn into a bitter person that you’re not hoping for good
Outcomes so yeah I I I managed to just go tell you what fos is a great guy uh he’s he’s gone on to achieve in his career something that I never did he’s also got unbelievable like presence outside of football why don’t I just learn from him why don’t I enjoy these
Aspects and say right bigger picture is I get another year uh I’ve also got an opportunity to learn something as well like let’s just develop myself as a person and did I learn a lot from fuzzy as a goalkeeper no not at all I’m still the same goalkeeper did I learn a lot
From him as a person probably not because it was six weeks but did I take encouragement of how he helped me off the pitch I was in like told me some key tips to to make the podcast grow or to about my media presence yeah so these
Sort of things geared towards me going just make the most of it we always talk about situations and how when a situation isn’t going your way you will always perceive it to be a threat and this happens not just in life but in goalkeeping you know you’re playing in a
Big Stadium the threat is making a mistake in front of all these people but actually there’s opportunity to be found in everything that you do I’m a big believer in that yeah yeah 100% And it’s it’s challenge versus threat mentality if you adopt a threat mentality you will
Always find a way to see the bad in a situation but if you adopt a challenge mentality you will find Opportunities and strengths and Solutions in the situation that you’re in so even in games where you make mistakes or in your circumstance you know competition coming
In knowing that he was going to play you found a way to find one or two small things that you could grab on to that kept you going through that period and that’s magnificent and I I think you probably enjoyed that experience much more doing it that way as opposed to as
You mentioned being the bitter person who would then bring the group down yeah and even on that like if if I’d have been the bitter person I I know that I contractually had it in my contract that if I played a certain amount of games and we got promoted I had another year
But they would have still tried to force me out if I was not that person if I weren’t the good guy around the dressing room because even this year fuzzy started the season uh then I got back in the team because fuzzy retired uh ARA’s then got in the team like football
Changes constantly I’m back in the team now because of ARA’s injury I’ve got no doubt that he’ll probably get back in the team at some point but I can only do the job to the best of my ability when I’m called upon and if the manager tells
Me it’s for 15 games of a season I’ll do it for 15 games if he tells me he wants me to play 45 games this season I’ll play 45 games this season he’s the one that picks the team like it shouldn’t affect me as a person it might affect
The way that uh I control situations but I have to adapt from from those decisions and I’ve always looked at it like that I think it’s got a lot easier as I’ve got towards the back end of my career because my acceptance level is a lot I’m a lot more tolerant uh and
And I can then quick quicker turn that negative into a pos positive and I can just rub it off a lot more but at the time you instantly you think this is going to tarnish me as a person uh it it’s going to affect my performances uh
It’s going to affect my my moods my my my own life it’s I’m going to go home I’m going to be more resentful but you can’t be like that you can’t dwell on it you can’t like let it consume you you have to just go right how do I move on
Straight away like I said earlier I found it’s just acceptance you have to just accept the situation and then go how do I improve from this I I always talk on on acceptance I always talk about um never too high or never too low so when you work with younger
Goalkeepers and they go through the highs and lows which you’ve probably experienced in your career their their wavelength of highs and lows are probably like that massive yeah they’ll go and have a brilliant game and they’ll be up here somewhere and then they’ll make a mistake and they’ll be on the
Floor and I think as goalkeepers get older that margin then starts to shrink and you you suddenly just have like really small waves of highs and lows so you have a great game but you know not to celebrate it too much yeah you make a mistake and it doesn’t put you on the
Floor because you’ve got that acceptance and that understanding that next week could be a completely different story and then that stops you from dropping off a cliff every single week when something goes wrong Y no it’s a comfort comfortability like you know where you are you know where you should be and
Like you said you know not to get too high and you know not to get too low right uh let’s crack on with our quiz right uh hi guys I’m fill to share something with you today the Mito Pro 300 from Mito red light therapy been a game
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The MIT pro300 for yourself visit myo redlight.com and take the first step towards a better you hit the link in the description below now let’s dive back into this episode brief to about it before but yeah goalie or no goalie oh God so I’ve got five International goalkeepers and five other
Madeup names from around the world right uh you can head over to YouTube and follow our leader board and it’s one point for each correct answer how do you think you’re going to do on this I’m going to struggle mate I’m going to be honest really I think so actually no no
Positive psychology positive mindset going to smash say Practice What You free please acceptance acceptance right so uh yeah 10 names 10 points for up up for grabs okay number one Antonio Rodriguez goalie he is a goalie yes he is Mexico and Tijana buzzing goalkeeper great start Good Start happy now one Off
The Mark confidence is high number two rihard matovich goalie said that confidence yeah I know him worked with him at Barnet oh nice you well played yeah L and Ria f c goalkeeper great guy number three nno Rubik no goalie he is not a goalkeeper flying he is the
Inventor of the Rubik’s Cube man is he yeah that’s a that’s a rogue shout that is made up names oh no Rubik obviously once you hear it is Rubik’s Cube number four Alexander schlager no goalie he is a goalie he is Austria and souls goalkeeper unreal it’s
A great name schagger what a name that is a slur name of what you order at the bar that Reed kit suits him as well can I go schogger please right number five Alex Borstein no goalie you’re not a goalkeeper because she is an American actress that plays Lorie Griffin in
Family Guy hell that’s class yeah she’s a voice over for Lorie I’d love to know who Source these names by the way me you’ve done I do all this I do my own quiz man that is wicked I never would have thought of getting someone like that up yeah right number six John
Pton no goalie not a goalkeeper inventor of Coca-Cola really yes knew I knew that somewhere John P pton bet a Coca-Cola mate millionaire or was been a millionaire back then yeah it would have been yeah right number seven Morgan Wallen goalie not a goalkeeper that was a guess
One one of the world’s most famous country singers right now really yes I think I’ve heard some of his songs actually yeah you would have done he’s got that like um that really like country voice as well hasn’t he bit SMY American yeah nice number eight Tyreek
Bodak no goalie he’s a goalie struggling now Carousel and cber yeah goalie yeah I was never going to get that one no you I it’s all a trick they’re meant to sound like they’re all goalkeepers right number nine what you on now five come on two more number nine Albert just Albert just
Albert last two have been goalies this got be no goalie he’s going to do all psychology really I’ve got to be you are correct it is actually the sponsor the teddy bear sponsor for Euro 2024 Albert who was that Goldie that play for AC Milan he just had one name daa yeah
That’s it that’s what I was thinking it might be I thought throw you off just having one name yeah I honestly thought it would right and number 10 Martin bolker goalie goalie yeah well played QPR goalie know no Poland goalkeeper ni oh that was a guess there was a lad at
QPR who was called marstin as well was oh fair play yeah no seven out of 10 you got to be happy with that yeah B what was the what’s the record 10 all right who got 10 uh Emily Ramsey uh go yeah she was good she was really good good
Knowledge that is I’m f with that though yeah s out of 10 puts your right in a mix mate yeah love it head over to the leaderboard on YouTube told you right uh I want to go uh straight into like the mentality aspect so dealing with
Mistakes uh I’ve told you a couple of my analogies already uh do you want me to tell them first and then you can tell how you would tell your clients yeah let’s do that let’s do that so uh currently uh it’s a lot easier for me
Because when I make a mistake now I said to you before uh the first thing that I say I block out all the noise around me uh and the first thing I I ask myself I say what do my kids call me and they still call me dad no matter what if I
Make a mistake if I do something good if I do something bad what do my kids call me and that’s my reset button I have a that’s a lot of Keepers will touch the post or touch the crossbar or they’ll a lot of footballers will cross themselves
They’ll do something but it’s a reset button isn’t it mine is just what do my dad uh what do my kids call me so I found that ones work for me now but when I was younger Alex welsher previous guest he he gave me the best one ever
And I still tell people about it to this day and it was every time you make a mistake you pick up a stone right imagine putting all those stones in your pocket and if you don’t get rid of those stones how heavy do you feel so early on
When I was young uh like 14 15 I would I would visually like un pretend to unzip a pocket on my jersey and throw away the stone because I knew I had to get rid of it I couldn’t carry it around in that game I couldn’t play heavier and I found
That like through especially like in the early career was the the best way of me like resetting or just getting rid of that mistake I love that it’s almost like you’re getting rid of mental baggage yeah because you’re carrying a friend of mine uses this analogy talks about carrying sandbag around with him
When you when you know you have stress in life and if you go through a match carrying the mistakes or the stones you’re making your life a million times harder imagine trying to dive in the top corner with stones in your PO exactly yeah you just would you’d never be able
To get there so you have to unload the stones and unload the baggage I I love that wanted to ask you though that question about your kids what why do you ask that question to yourself what do you feel that gives you in terms of a you know the change in the thought
Thought process what does that give you just makes me clear my mind again and uh I can literally brush a I’ll make a mistake and then if whatever it be small big whatever uh I can just go do my kids still call me dad and the answer is
Always yes so I’m like what’s wrong then get on with it like your kids are still going to love you or like your family is still going to love you no matter what you do whether you make a mistake in life there’s always going to be someone there that still supports you you’ve
Always got someone that’s going to Advocate what you’re doing so no matter who hates you who dislikes you who’s booing you don’t actually matter because as long as you can just crack on and do the job to the best of your ability that’s the main thing and if you carry
That baggage if you don’t have that reset button you can’t perform at the the level that you should do you know what it’s about perspective isn’t it I think the key theme you’re touching on there is is perspective and when we make mistakes when we make mistakes in
Football it seems like the whole world is coming crashing down on us but when you put it into perspective like you have you still have your kids you still have your health this is just a game it’s a sport which people take very very seriously but you as an individual are
Just playing a game it’s the context around the game and the pressure and the money and the mortgages and all of those factors that create that cauldron of pressure where we take it a lot more seriously than it actually needs to be taken and I’ve always found this
Fascinating but if you look at the guys at the very top the majority of them are so Blas about the way they process the game they’re all so relaxed about it and the goalkeepers that really Thrive whether it be in the Premier League or all the way down in you know step nine
Step 10 wherever it is the ones that thrive at every single level are the ones that approach the game with that element of Freedom they just go in and they say whatever’s going to happen is going to happen it’s not in my hands no
One intends to go into a game and make a mistake and Tom Heaton was really really excellent of this and I’m sure he might have spoken about this when he came on but he used to say when he was at Wickham and I had the chance to speak to
Him because we’re both there together um he would always say that he prepared for mistakes well in advance of the game in his head he would tell himself I might make a mistake today I’m going to put that on the table that’s on the table it
Could happen so that when you go into a game and we talk about that Cliff that you could fall off yeah the cliff all of a sudden comes down to here as opposed to being up there if you don’t accept the idea of a mistake happening you’re
Setting yourself up for a massive fool y but if you accept that it’s on the table all of a sudden it’s just a quick jump down and the jump back up yeah yeah so I think the first thing that people get wrong when they talk about mistakes in
Goalkeeping is they they think that there’s just some magic technique that you can do in a game which will help them and there are things that can help in the moment but to truly get comfortable with the idea of failure it starts well in advance of performance
You’ve got to condition your brain and your belief system that when you walk out on the pitch it’s okay to fail and it is okay to fail because we all we’re human beings 100% yeah so that that’s the first part for me anyway I don’t know what your thoughts are on that no
Making a mistake for a goalkeeper isn’t a possibility is reality you’re going to make a mistake at some point you like you said we’re only human goalkeeper like I you I like to always say goalkeepers are villains in football no one ever goes to football to watch nil
Nil and both goalkeepers be unbelievable no one does so you’re almost wanting goalkeepers to make mistakes before the game’s even kicked off because you want goals so as a goalkeeper it’s more realistic to say we’re going to make mistakes how do we adjust and adapt from that how do we
Then perform to the level that we should do after that 100% it’s it’s about the response we always talk about what’s the situation the situation is you’ve made a mistake what’s the response okay well there’s 80 minutes left in the game I have the power now to go and influence
That 80 80% left or 80 minutes left in the game I have the power it’s in my control mistakes are uncontrollable there could be a deflection it could take a Nick you know there’s so many uncontrollable factors in football that goalkeepers have to deal with why are you carrying that baggage around with
You let it go focus on the next thing and I always always talk about um having a response situation response what is your response and the way that I coach goalkeepers to deal with mistakes is that we will discuss their best ever game so I’ll do it with you now so if
You go in your head in your catalog of hundreds of games and you had to pick one game where you are absolutely unbelievable have you got a game in mind uh yeah probably uh The League Cup against West Ham away yeah United uh it was at Upton Park yeah made saving a
Second half of deflection that St it down in shot it deflected over my head and somehow I don’t you know one of them if you don’t buy a ticket for the raffle you can’t win a prize yeah I just went for it and somehow it hit me on the hand
And went over I don’t know I shouldn’t have saved it but everyone’s gone oh my God yeah it was an unbelievable save we won on penalties at night so yeah probably that one so if you had to pick now thinking back to that game in your
Head if you had to pick three action words that best describe you in that game that you can control what three action words would they be Um instinctive MH um reactive MH and it’s more than more than a word uh just desire I would say yeah desire to to get through uh win at all costs perfect that’s your response next time you make a mistake in the game instinctive reactive desire yeah say
Those words to yourself because when you make a mistake your attention focuses on what’s just happened in the past but what you want your brain to focus on are the steps and the processes that allow you to be successful so when you are at your best like in that game those are
The three things that you’re unconsciously demonstrating on the pitch yeah you have desire to win you have desire to keep the ball out the net you’re instinctive in the way you make decisions you’re reactive to whatever happens in front of you and you might even say proactive in terms of the way
The game’s gone now in terms of high starting positions and stuff and you can set up a mantra a response Mantra to when bad situations happen and that’s literally a technique that I will do with goalkeepers I’ll sit with them and say what’s your best game like what are
Your three action words right next time you’re in training next time you’re out in a game go and say those three words to yourself now I’m not going to sit here and say I’m a guru or you know I’m Jesus and you know this is the gospel
But it works for the majority of people because it takes the focus away from things that you don’t need to be thinking about and the the way that I want people to think about the mind is that it’s a filter you’ve got a funnel system the more information you put into
The filter it has to produce out something so why would you not flood the filter with loads of great information and the great information is those three words say them over and over again when the ball’s at the other end of the pitch there’s your chance what are my three
Words say them to myself and then in between you can have those reset behaviors throwing the stones out the pocket Joe Hart does the old squeeze of the GL gloves I’ve seen goalkeepers restrap their gloves and what I normally recommend to to younger goalkeepers that I work with kind of Academy level or
Downwards you can have like a little Post-It note which you sell a tape onto your wrist strap with the words on there or you can write them on your glove David James used to write on his gloves he used to actually write words on his gloves and read them out Tony Warner did
The same I think really and they’ let like they’ have key words just written on their fingers it’s just trigger points it’s just things to not take your mind off the game but to redirect your attention away from negativity onto things that you need to focus on because
The biggest source of of performance breakdown in in terms of pressure is either when you get distracted or when your brain pays attention to the wrong things but do you on contradicting that right do you think by saying those words I’m distracting away from what I’m
Trying to do do you think I’m losing attention by doing that because I would almost say that if I’m thinking about those three words I’m I’m not concentrating on on the job in hand but you don’t necessarily need and I completely understand where you’re coming from but when you’re playing in a
Game you’re not you’re concentrating but you’re not concentrating when you’re in performance mode you’re playing in the unconscious mind we’d like to Hope professional goalkeepers like yourself who have got loads of experience very rarely will use what we call conscious processing where they actually think about what they’re doing and the best
Way I can describe this to people is when you’re going for your driving test or when you’re starting to learn to drive sorry you think about where the clutch is you think about the gear shift you think about the mirrors you think about everything yeah now if I asked you
How do you drive a car you just get in the car and you drive drive so you’ve got the the manual brain and the automatic brain so when you’re in performance mode you’re not actually thinking about the game yeah which is why the three words allow you to just
Direct Focus back onto what you need to that that would be my argument but again the mind is a complex thing and we still barely understand how it works yeah but what we do know is that attention can shift in different places at different times so it’s always good to have a
Focus when you’re performing right and uh obviously all goalkeepers are slightly different like I said to you before uh I don’t ever feel like feel like it would have benefited me anyway because of my mindset was so different anyway and obviously there are a lot of goalkeepers that are like me but there
Are are some that are not it’s harder coming through now the system do you feel like that getting in early and speaking to them and putting these processes in place would benefit goalkeepers who needs a psychologist I think everybody and I’m not saying that to self-promote the
Industry I’m really not I’m saying it from personal experience now from my heart being proactive with this stuff is always beneficial you think about you know technical tactical and physical things that you put in into goalkeeper training from a young age you know ply metrics basic hand shapes footwork
Understanding space on the pitch you train all of that stuff from under n why would you neglect the mental side of the game why would you not teach a goalkeeper under NES all the way through to under 16s or 18s how to deal with mistakes it’s better that they have
Tailored tools for different age groups going through the system so they can deal with those moments so that when they get to their debut and they’re playing at I know Old Trafford that was always my dream how to deal with a mistake how are you going to cope when
You walk out onto that pitch and you make a mistake and everyone’s laughing at you how are you going to cope with that if you haven’t proactively put the tools in place Y and like we had the conversation before about psychology being really science-based it doesn’t
Have to be depending on the type of person that you work with it can be kept really really basic and Abstract so that people can understand it and I think that’s the challenge for us as psychologists is to really connect with the people that we work with what’s a
Way that I can talk that you are going to understand and that’s not a power thing or an education thing that’s me being an effective practitioner y I want to make sure that the information I give you will have a lasting impact from the time you enter the game to the time that
You leave the game and Beyond you’re just trying to work out what makes you tick and then to manipulate the good bits and the bad bits of like make that a positive make that a positive and turn that negative around and you’re just trying to find out those little key bits
Of information of like it’s not a weakness but you’re trying to find out those those key bits of information that make me who I am absolutely and it’s not a problem solver process all the time generally people come because they want to solve problems actually psychology
Can be used to pro be proactive or teach people how to harness their strengths and I always joke with the people that I work with because in session one I’ll put a picture up on we we normally share um a screen if we’re doing on Zoom or if
We’re in person I’ll show them the picture but it’s a picture of like a gentleman with like glasses on he’s got his notebook there and he’s got his leg crossed over he’s going so tell me about all the problems in your life and the lady’s lying on the sofa you know being
Analyzed as you will and I’m like that is so far from what I do anyway that it’s it’s it’s a joke yeah that’s what people perceive psychology to be though and it’s not like that yeah most of the days when I’m working at clubs I’m out on the grass with the boys
Go and watch the goalie sessions sometimes I get involved in the two touch like it’s very very interactive and Hands-On yeah it doesn’t have to be an US versus them mentality do you find that then a footballer will respond differently in a group as compared to an individual
Because obviously you you you come into a dressing room and speak in front of 30 people you’re going to lose 28 of those people aren’t you that and that’s natural because of peer pressure but when you speak to someone oneon-one it’s a lot easier to pick up on traits and
You’re easier to find out the their personality and what will make them tick yeah you’re right and when you have those one toone conversations people tend to be more comfortable cuz they’re not in the group setting you got to remember that when you’re in the group setting eyes and listening ears right
Why is he talking to him he must have a problem he’s the problem doctor he’s doc they sometimes people call us doc yeah we’re not doctors all of us some of us are some of us aren’t I’m not I would never want to be called doc yeah I’m
Just one of the lads so whenever I work with players or I’m embedded in environments it’s about having a chat at lunch yeah how you getting on what do you think about the game on the weekend you know what do you think about you know that goal that you conceded or you
Know the mistake that you made or what do you think about that great thing that you did you know let’s talk about the good stuff as well and if you build good relationships with people and you find a way to hit them on that level when you’re in those group settings and
You’re delivering group work you tend to get a bit of a different response from people because you’re at the same level then they’re all trying to make each other laugh aren’t they yeah and you can join in on that yeah you could be like
Lads listen I know we want to get out of here you know it’s been a long day Gaff has had you out on the training pitch for a while let’s do quick 10 minutes and I’ll get you home Lads are buzzing because they’re like okay this guy gets it
And you know this is not just me this is not the advice that I’ve given myself this is just from experience of of working with psychologists in the past you want them to know that they understand what you’re going through and the worst and the best advice has always
Been advice that I felt I could you know relate to myself and I’m sure you know your experience as well it’s the easiest way to coach isn’t it it’s like this is how I did it but I’m not saying this is the right way for you but this is a way
Of doing it try it if it doesn’t work try a different way and just keep on evolving that’s why I think coaches now carry the biggest battern for psychology like the coach should be a psychologist not go through the training but work with the psychologist so you have their
Some of their knowledge because your goalie coach is with you every single day he knows you better than I will ever know you what makes you tick what makes you what your strengths are what your weaknesses are I’m better off empowering him with that knowledge to help you than
Us doing a block of three sessions yeah let’s just say we can get great outcomes from the rec sessions but for lasting impact it’s also good that if I work with him as well yeah it’s also harder for me and you in a classroom to put
That on a football pitch where if that comes from your coach or your goalie coach and they tell you on a football pitch it’s real world situations then because you’re you’re out there doing it and that’s a total different aspect which I I totally get that that would
Make a lot of sense it’s got to have it’s got to have an element of of fun to it as well this is serious stuff we’re talking about we’re talking about people’s careers here people people live off this discussions that we’re having so there’s got to be fun to it you got
To make it enjoyable you know ah did you go out on the weekend you know did you have a few drinks because you know sometimes people go out and have a few drinks oh what you get up to you know ah I saw that nice After Shave in in selfes
You know it smells really good how much did it cost just small talk like that yeah and you can build those great relationships with people which then allow the psychology to drive in if you just dive straight in with the psychology from my experience you lose them straight away yeah you’re making them
Comfortable yeah it’s a friendship I I always view the way that I work with people as a friendship so like even when I walked into the building here today I’ve seen you all over social media and I listen to your stuff so I’m like
Mark’s a great guy I know when I come in here I’m going to have a great time with him and it’s like we had that relationship before we even walked in but when you’re in football there’s this like guard that everyone puts up and it’s about finding ways to get past that
Guard and get into people but then that’s where I find in my uh that goalkeepers are different we we can see someone as competition but we can be their friend uh the outfielders don’t do that that I think that they struggle to cope with competition because they still
Get opportunities and you still get like that little uh you’re getting drip fed you’re like oh I might not be starting today but I might come on for 20 minutes and you false hope where a goalkeeper were like on the bench today and you sit
Back and you relax and you go I’m not getting in until he’s injured or makes a mistake so like our mindset of going I’ve been competing against him but the manager’s gone with him I can remove myself from that situation but the outfielders I feel like that they’re the
Ones that are like hanging on a little bit because they’re not used to that feeling of like just going to get taken away from you in an instant because you you’re constantly going well if he gets injured or I could come on and I could
Go and play on my right back I could come play left back and you’re still hanging in there and that’s why Outfield players have more mood fluctuation so like you look at them around the training building if they’re in out the team they’re always having the carrot dangled yeah with goalkeepers if you
Know you’re the number two it’s like cool this is the situation I’m in I need to work hard I need to work my bollocks off but be patient but be patient and your time always comes I’m a firm believer in your time always comes whether it’s a month or a season you
Will have a chance to show what you can do yeah and I literally I had um a goalkeeper that I worked with he’s out in Ireland at the moment he um he hasn’t been in the team he got dropped for one bad game played the whole season before
Got dropped for one bad game and he textt me when I was on the way here he goes they lost 3-0 on the weekend I’m back in next week and he goes funny how quick a weekend football can go I said there you go I said to him your Chance
Is coming just do keep doing the right things be professional bite the bullet good things will happen yeah and it’s a patience game but we want everything so immediate in life as human beings and that’s where the emotions start to play and the thoughts just don’t become
Logical anymore is that more on jealousy I think ego yeah I think it’s ego we we have damaged egos as as as football people because we think that we deserve to be playing all the time yeah and when you get told you’re not going to be
Playing all of a sudden you start to question your your selfworth you know you question your value your purpose makes sense and when those questions come about the whole thing just the tower collapses so I think I think it’s all to do with ego but that’s why I love
Working with the goalkeepers because goalkeepers have this really unique bond with one another and this really unique mindset where everyone’s in it together but everyone’s still competing and you know it from experience I mean you could probably mention 10 or 15 different examples off the top of your head of
That camaraderie and that banter and the stories that you get from the goldie group for me that’s the best part about being a goalkeeper that group being stuck together banter flying in the group chat laughs out on the pitch doing stupid stuff where outf players are
Going what the hell are they doing over there they don’t understand it they don’t but you know when you’re playing two touch and someone’s getting ear flicks or red ass yeah that’s that’s the funniest thing ever it is it’s way more funny than what the outfi players are
Doing over there and that’s what I love about the goalkeeping group The Psychology and the camaraderie behind it you’ve kind of answered my final question here right but uh so I always ask everyone now uh what does a goalkeepers Union mean to you you kind of answered it in a nutshell there but
Yeah if you just want to take that a little bit more because obviously we are such a unique group I think I think that word that you’ve just mentioned there summarizes is what it means to me uniqueness I think I mentioned to you when I started out as a goalkeeper that
Feeling of being unique really sat nicely with me and I think everyone who’s a goalkeeper believes that they are unique in some way and that idea of being the only person in your team who truly understands what you’re going through it’s a scary place to be but
It’s also a powerful place to be you are the expert on the pitch in your position there’s only two of you one on each team and even though you don’t know the guy at the other end you both share that commonality of being in the same thing going through the same conditions
Playing through the same conditions and riding the waves of the game and I always say that goalkeepers have the utmost influence on the entire storyline of the game it’s that old adage right Striker misses a goal game can end in a draw goalkeeper makes a mistake could
Cost you three points yep and you are riding that that edge of failure the entire game and that adrenaline rush and that responsibility that you have I think that’s where we as goalkeepers get our fix that’s where our dopamin rush comes from yeah you know that cross that
Comes in which you half get a Nick on it right the ball’s gone over my head I have no idea where it is please don’t be in the net it’s it’s like that is it a feeling yeah all the time yeah that’s what it means to me it’s just being
Unique and the adrenaline rush I love it yeah love that great answer that uh kaval it’s been unbelievable having you’re on uh I feel like I’ve learned a lot I’m definitely sure my audience would have done too thank you very much for coming on no thanks very much for
Listening to me talk mate no no honestly I’ve loved it uh obviously picking your brains and obviously uh putting across my perspective and trying to help you almost as well I I find that like uh that’s what the goalkeepers we all do is we all try and develop each other we are
The the worst of Rivals and the best of friends it’s it’s amazing how we can all get along so well but also strive for that one place and I feel like that’s what I love about the golden community community is just that ring it together but we’ve got sub understanding of each
Other 100% man no I’m really grateful for you having me on mate really appreciate it thank you very much so everyone make sure you check out kav’s uh podcast as well the goalkeeper mindset loads of great stuff on there loads of great interviews as well especially some of the friends that I’ve
Had on uh it’s an unbelievable podcast make sure you go and listen to it uh this has been the yours M away podcast with me Mark Howard uh I need to say thank you to our sponsors MTO red light and also Forge Irish Stout thanks guys
You really do help us grow uh make sure you follow like and sub subscribe thanks a lot guys bye what a say from Mark Howard
5 Comments
Love the podcast keeps me looking for improvement as a keeper!
Alex Borstein also was in Marvelous Mrs Maisel.
Really good pod cast Mark lots of insight for GKs
Without doubt one of my favourite episodes. I’ll be implementing many of these strategies with my own goalkeeping group.
I use the Tiger Woods 10 Step rule once a mistake has been made. You’ve got 10 steps to swear, be as angry, frustrated or negative as you like. But once you reach step 11, it’s time to move on.
Excellent episode. My 11 year old was listening too. He is going to think of some positive words to write on his gloves !! 🧤