The Upshot: Eagle Leaves Discmania, Power Thrower Rankings

Charlie Eisenhood and Josh Mansfield discuss many angles of Eagle McMahon’s departure from Discmania, including what’s next for Eagle, how Discmania will need to reshape its brand, and the state of the post-COVID sponsorship landscape. They also discuss the throwing stats of some of the biggest arms on the sport.

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Chapters
0:00 Introduction
3:45 Eagles Leaving Discmania
32:05 Power Ranking Power Throwers

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Welcome to the upshot ulti World disc golf’s podcast about the latest in the disc golf worlds I’m the editor Charlie Eisen Hood it is Tuesday January 9th joining me is Josh Mansfield and Josh it’s the moment we’ve been waiting for the sponsorship news bomb drops on us on

Monday January 8th and you know a lot of speculation about this and it turns out the rumors are true Tiger Woods Nike it’s over it’s over that was the news that was the news everyone on this podcast was waiting for I I realized just how messed up my

Search algorithms and like my customized feed are on all my socials and news when like all I saw was the news about a disc golfer and I had to scroll a ways before I ever saw the news about tiger and and I mean I’m pretty connected in the

Sports like media and like watching sports news and it took me a while to find this one so uh yeah it’s I mean it’s big news though I really I think there are some interesting news and and like what tiger is going to do next you know he says

There’s another chapter coming um I I think there’s some really interesting discussion that could happen around Tiger but I just want to point out one thing uh Tiger Woods this is an article on Reuters you can find it anywhere I’m sure though uh he signed his first

5-year deal in 1996 Charlie how much do you think that five-year deal was worth I he was he was what he was like 14 or something he was like not he he I don’t know if he’s quite that young but he super young I think he was I think he

Was 20 okay then I just wrong okay I’m just wrong but um five years yep I’ll say 25 million 40 million wow in 1996 8 million a year in 96 which you know whatever that is today it’s oh geez probably you know 14 million in 20232 24 we got a way to go

I and like you know what a monster like Nike Nike loves to have the the iconic athletes as part of their brand forever you know it’s in a way it’s surprising that this happened but Nike has also been sort of divesting from golf for a while so yeah I

Wonder whose decision it was and was it because of money or was it because of something else because remember Nike stuck it out with tiger even when he was going through it with the like you know Affair and the drama the drama like they didn’t drop him even

Though a lot of his other sponsors did yeah and so I’m sure it’s like I I just wonder honestly if Nike was like I don’t we don’t want to pay you what it is anymore because we we’re not as much in the Gulf I haven’t really seen any reporting on exactly what’s happening

There but yeah you know he’s not playing much anymore is he connecting with today’s golf fan in the same way I you know it is surprising though cuz I feel like you could sell Tiger Wood’s Golf Apparel for literally forever yeah yeah yeah I think so too but should we talk

About the other sponsorship news Charlie let’s do it okay it is confirmed Eagle McMahon is leaving discmania and so all the rumors were true the snapshot of the YouTube uh that went private that we saw on Reddit it was real I’m not surprised like as you pointed out Josh last week

It would have Tak taking an immense effort in Photoshop to make to make that like make that a fraudulent thing so Eagle is gone uh and this has been rumored for months and so we have now seen in back-to-back off Seasons dis Mania lose the players that brought it

To prominence and made it the brand that it is and it’s really uh it’s pretty remarkable and I’m sure well I’m not sure perhaps we will get more of the backstory about why Eagle decided to leave discmania you know is it a similar story

As to Simon where it was like time for a change or was it really about money and I think either could be true but at the end of the day it’s going to be a whole new world for both eagle and discmania because you know Des Mania now Kyle

Klein and Ella Hansen they’re most prominent athletes those are great players but it does feel like they need to make a move or people are going to be writing their you know their death story even though it would be premature even though it wouldn’t be

True uh I do think they would suffer a Slowdown in sales if they don’t sign Ganon Burr I mean that’s really what it’s going to come down to right right yeah it it’s it’s really interesting that as we watch how this is kind of unfolded because you see I mean

When you think about players now and and who have who are well established with Brands were really like top faces at Brands it feels like there just are not very many if any left right like Paul Paul now synonymous with disc craft was was Inova right like that’s where he

Started and and nobody thought he would ever leave ineva and uh Rick Rick going back to DD and I mean just there there have been so many changes and I you know we joked about the Tiger Woods intro this is business at the end of the

Day and it has to be profitable for both sides and while it’s very easy to create like emotional attachments and fandom that connects them as part of a team it it’s it’s less of a team than even on professional level where you have like in in like team based Sports where they

Sign contracts with teams um it it very much is like who is going to be able to make each other money and and the most money and create a Business Partnership and relationship that is going to be the most successful and as the dis and it

It’s I think I think I was naive to think that the co landscape was not going to change disc golf so drastically that the old reasons why people are part of companies would not Dr ically change and I remember I mean we did we did a

Segment and I’m going to I said that there was less than 1% chance that eagle was going to leave dis Mania in the offseason let’s let hang on right there go ahead yep let’s play it let’s hear what Josh said about what two months ago three months something here it

Is what what do you have for Point one% chance of happening Josh final final category one a thousand one in a thousand my one in a thousand Eagle leaves discmania come on it’s got to be higher than that no no I don’t think so and here’s why all right so Josh respond to

Yourself that’s yeah this is kind of what I was doing I I i’ gotten I’ve gotten some messages in the Discord uh or not messages but in the the UL World Discord they were talking about out you know this is another uh forking Isaac situation and they’re absolutely right I

I I goofed this one this terrible terrible take and I was I was naive to think that any contract that was established preco um was not at risk of being completely and drastically shaken up because disc golf was completely and drastically shaken up and whatever the reasons Eagle said in his departure

Video that when he signed with dis Mania back when he was 16 years old that dis Mania was not the highest offer but he took them because of a gut feeling and it felt right and he had connections he had connections a Montgomery Colorado like you can see why right right it

Makes sense and and you know this is pure speculation he has not said where he’s going he’s not said the terms of any contract I don’t know if it’s money but it it really feels at this point that the decisions that are being made are very much business

Oriented and of course right and they they should be they should be but that’s it’s just very different than the the narratives and the way that people spoke about sponsorships pre-co and that so that’s that’s my biggest takea away from this well and and you know you got to

Give credit because eagle has been an incredible Ambassador for dis media as a brand yeah uh he has always hyped the products he has you know dealt with situations where he couldn’t get stable enough plastic and you know when they rolled out a new Putter and it like

Wasn’t right for him like he kind of dealt with that quietly and he’s you know they’re selling a cloudbreaker in January 2024 and he’s going to go do a signing as like a what like a I’m going out the door I mean I’m sure he’s going

To get paid for all that but like it it is a little he’s been a great face of the Brandt and I’m sure it was difficult for him to walk away given that you know he chose to stay with them for years but here is the thing that is really

Underlying all of this discmania arguably had the best contracts in disc golf with Simon and Eagle because they had them on relative to their level cheap deals throughout like into Co times and as the boom was happening yeah eagle has been underpaid for sure for years and it is

The question is like how much negotiation was there on like bumping up that money but like Eagle’s not making MC Beth money MH and he probably deserves to make MC Beth money now if you want to talk about the injury status and the surgery that he’s coming off of and like

The risk there okay I hear all that but you know look at Otani getting a mega deal as he goes through Tommy John and he’s in his 30s but like you know what great players are great players and they are probably going to bounce back and

You have to take a chance so some company’s going to take a chance we’ll find out who soon enough and I think that you just somebody in the comments on eagles post let me let me look this up I want to get this exactly right uh all things elevated on Instagram said I

Guess this is the trend let a company make you rich then bounce I love eagle and Simon it’s just crazy to me come on now like this is cop from a discmania fan or something because the idea that these guys got rich because of disc Mania and not because of their

Skill and the and the value that they brought to dis Mania to sell the discs that made dis Mania a popular brand the the correlation and causation is busted okay they’re great play and personalities and Vlogs and everything that they did as marketers as influencers for the brand that’s what

Made dis Mania money and that’s what made them money where is dis Mania without those guys oh geez it’s a it’s doesn’t it’s not it’s not even close to where it is today yeah yeah so I I don’t want to hear this like oh of loyalty come on you

Want to see loyalty dis Mania should have backed up the truck three years ago for these guys MH and they wouldn’t have left yep but they didn’t and then they tried to play catchup and so look I’m sure dis Mania is gonna be fine and I’ll tell you why

Okay no one is talking about this but Josh I saw this if you read the article okay is on the website from dis Mania the farewell Eagle piece Okay blah blah blah you know everybody’s giving love I’m sure there is plenty of you know appreciation on both sides for the long

Partnership that they had but at the bottom of this article it says with somber news there’s often a silver lining we have a lot of new and exciting things on the horizon stay tuned to see what 2024 has in store that’s tell me you’re signing Ganon Burr without telling me you’re

Signing Ganon Bur I I think it’s a I mean it’s it feels it feels right the con the previous connections the fact that they have tons of quote unquote cap space right money available to pay a top player it it really does feel like all the stars are

Aligning uh to to make Ganon Burr very successful what are they going to do right ganon’s like I have X deal from this other company what are you g to do about it dis Mania is gonna match it and exceed it because they have no choice

And I think it it it sets them up for the next leg of what their growth and you know will Ganon and Kyle Klein have this on course success that Simon and Eagle have had I think that’s very possible will they be as good of ambassadors for the

Brand that’s less clear I think discmania they caught lightning in a bottle with two very very skilled players who o happen to be extremely good at being like influencer marketers and that and that is that is correct there I’m not going to dispute that even even a little bit the point I

Want to make though with Ganon there’s two things that are of note here both Ganon and Kyle are younger than Simon and Eagle significantly so um in terms of Del like dis golf age the other thing you know youve got the question marks of Eagle injury but Kyle and Ganon have as

Many Majors as eagle and Simon do combin they both won usdgc like you’re right that they both have us-based Majors too I mean winning European open and both at kotap those are great Majors but but winning Eagle Eagle stands alone though when I was writing the article

About this I I looked it up he’s won more Elite Series and Majors since he signed with dis Mania in that’s ban from 2016 to now I think uh he’s won more Lead Series and Majors than any players in no besides Paul and Ricky and he Absol absolutely deserves

Credit now it’s it’s also not fair to hold ganon’s longevity up against Eagles right given that ganon’s only been touring for a couple of years the kid still 18 maybe 19 now and and so you know that there but that’s that’s my point that I’m highlighting right is

That you have two massively talented dis golfers who are still very young assuming discmania science Ganon of around which they can build their brand and Ganon deserves credit he is very Savvy when it comes to social media and his presence there I agree and and so like

Look I think losing Eagle is going to be hard and I think disman is going to have to go through a a rebranding and creating a a new identity in a new era of dis Mania if they do it behind Ganon I think that they have a real Superstar who has

Social media presence as well as the skills necessary to be a flagship player though I mean let’s let’s look at this right Eagles 25 turn 25 this year yep uh in 20123 Simon turned 31 in 2023 Kyle Klein is 21 and Ganon is 18 and so if you’re projecting right

It’s easy to think about what we’ve seen right but if you’re projecting ahead you know assuming Eagle comes back fully healthy he could still have 10 years of tremendous level of play definitely Simon is going to start declining soon yes it’s just a fact from like a raw physicality and like athleticism

Perspective and Kyle and Ganon aren’t even close to their athletic Peaks yet they’re still ramping up and so I think this is going to be fine assuming they sign assuming they sign Ganon I think feels very very likely to me we’ll we’ll come back to this conversation if Ganon

Lands somewhere else okay okay um let’s we we talked a little bit about last week where we thought Eagle might land but let’s talk about the impact of where I I I think I have three destinations that I think are plausible for E okay and maybe we’ll get surprised

You never know the number one option has to be MVP SL streamline I mean this the rumors have been clearly the strongest in this direction um reuniting with Simon wouldn’t that be just wild what’s the impact if he ends up at MVP uh before I answer that question I I

Really want if he signs the MVP I want his press release to say for years dis Mania wouldn’t make me a dis stable enough so I’m going to the brand that that only throws over stable plastic uh impact for MVP they I’m we T I think you brought

This up but uh who owns the crush boys IP because that you know Crush boys 2.0 I don’t know what that that is right but but the reuniting creates a an opportunity for Branding and selling discs that uh is is the vend diagram and it’s it’s I wouldn’t even say like the

Thing is is that there are people who will buy Simon discs there are people who buy Eagle discs both of all those people will sign oh and buy Crush boys discs but there are a group of people who will buy Crush boys discs but not buy the other tw’s

Individually and and it does expand and create an opportunity for more uh disc sales I think in that area it gives them again a very strong social media YouTube and and media presence but also pairs it with you know what could be the the top

Player for the next 10 years um as you mentioned with eagle and and it creates a second line of discs right that you have the Simon line and then you have the eagle line and and get to develop the eagle line of discs that are right next to it and it’s

It’s just a lot more plastic that you get to move uh I’m curious to See I think the downside if you’re MVP is that if you’re Eagle you see Simon’s deal and you say uh I know I know the terms of my deal right like copy and paste please you know if you want me I want yeah right at least that’s if you’re eagle

And you know exactly what Simon’s getting if you’re coming over to MVP that’s how I open my negotiation is I pull out a copy of Simon’s offer I set it down I say here here’s here’s my terms this is what I want and like I’m curious to know does

Eagle move plastic in the same way that Simon did when he first comes over I would think so but but Simon is a unique player and beloved by fans in a way that not even Eagle is and I wonder what the impact of having two 10year 1010 million

Deals on payroll creates for MVP in later years of those contracts with another player I think if you’re MVP this is the it would be the coup of the century I mean you’re getting just monstrously popular tremendously successful disc golfers and like You’ already made this big

Kaboom into the market and the question for me would be can they can they follow through with the necessary capacity to give people the diss that they want because I I’ve I’ve talked to multiple people in retail over the last couple of weeks and they say that mvp is

By far by far the hardest to get stock from yep and that you know just like regular normal Baseline discs you can’t get them you can only get like special Tour series drops and stuff time lapse which gets annoying for players if you don’t like fulfill the basic needs of

Their bag not people are not going to only buy 25 $30 discs for their bag they’re just not so I think that would be the thing for them but it would be such a another to follow up with a huge eagle and remember they’re going to probably do a whole video and everything

Just like they did with Simon and like the hype the hype train would be just crazy massive crazy and yeah I mean I guess I guess you see some risk down the line but if you can use these two moves to to bite off enough market share that

People start using your discs I mean people are already I’ve seen dis Mania people be like I my whole bag is dis Mania but I’m going to have to re-evaluate that if you know Eagle isn’t resigned well here we are so what’s going to happen more people going to

Make the switch to MVP because they these are their favorite players um and and you’re drafting off of the image that dis Mania built for these two players oh that’s that’s absolutely true yes and so then you know sure you’re taking some risk but like how risky is it

Really if you’re biting off an extra 5% of market share yeah that I mean and what’s the annual like okay you’re spending $2 million a year on marketing expense what is the revenue for this company it’s a lot more than two million yeah yep I think I think it’s I think it’s entirely

Affordable hey MVP uh standing invitation uh if you sign eagle please come on the show we got question for you for uh so let’s what about Discraft there’s been a little bit of Buzz about maybe it’s Discraft he was seen throwing a Zone OS in a video Back In December or

Something what would this mean to Discraft if they signed Eagle Discraft has started doing something that I think is really interesting and and I wish we I I I remember thinking we need to talk about it and I just think I think it kind of got lost um during the holidays but

Discraft came out with the collaboration Series where you had like MC Beth and Cory Ellis Lunas I think was the mold and right like and different players are coming out with these or or was Anthony Barella and and MC Beth Lunas uh and they did the big Z Lunas and it was the

Collab series and and to me what I see when I I see those series is that they are taking the the purchasing power of MC Beth and they’re pairing it with their players who don’t sell discs in the same way uh which is probably everybody on their team right like not

Not to knock any of their individual players but nobody moves plastic like MC Beth and I know people who collect every Luna that comes out and so when Anthony Bella and Paul MC Beth do a collab big Z Luna you’re moving Anthony Bella plastic right and Anthony Bella gets some of

That money and and it’s an opportunity to harness MC Beth’s uh marketing and branding power especially with MC Beth and his focus on the found foundation running the Florida tournament the chess you know the chess.com Invitational these collab series MC Beth is becoming bigger and bigger than just a competitive and

Top player and and that’s been the case for years now and and an opportunity to bring Eagle in as kind of that pairing where you get to use The Branding and the power of and marketing power of MC Beth with a player who could be the top

Player for the next 10 years I think is a really smart opportunity for marketing and and one that Discraft can really take advant of um that that’s how I see those two playing out and I and I I I think that there’s actually uh like a pretty good fit there that I hadn’t

Considered prior to you know the official announcement of him leaving yeah it would it would definitely be a uh strength and to strength signing for Discraft who has the Deep a deep much deeper bench than MVP yeah and star power and this would be like we are like

We have the best team in this golf right now right like that that would that would wrap it up y like they were already I think out we decided they were number one right over Inova in the in the 2023 rankings poll I can’t remember I don’t remember what we

Decided MC Beth having a down year did not help right but they had a lot of other guys have good years but you know either way um I think the story would be similar if he signed at Inova which is that like okay like Inova

After maybe a little bit of a lean year on its Star Team uh obviously Calvin playing fantastic but like not obviously 100% consensus number one player but this would be like okay we’re going we’re back to our roots of like we have the best players at the top of no and

Like choice of Champions blah blah blah right right the the choice of Champions is the choice of champion singular right now right on the no side yeah right it’s a little thin on the Star Team um so interesting to see what would happen there so how about for dis Mania

If they don’t sign Ganon Burr what’s the impact I I think that I I think that it is an interesting question about what the house of diss business side is saying about sponsorship markets we see latitude not resign a bunch of kind of you know midlevel guys second tier guys Eagle

Doesn’t get resigned like I wonder if they are just sitting down looking at and they’re like resigning players who have been with a company for more than five years does not give you nearly the ROI that like we think it does that that’s my big question mark for dmania I

I’m hesitant to be like Oh No like dmania is down the drain when they have a huge corporate like part of a huge corporate entity now and like what that can mean for them um they still have Kyle they still have Ella and I’m just very curious how House of diss is is

Kind of approaching this part of the marketing and disc golf industry and if maybe it’s just a little bit different than what past tradition has told us is best there’s a lot of unanswered questions for me right now about House of dis and how they’re approaching stuff because if

Nicholas ends up at Latitude 64 then it’s like okay they like lateral moved him to what they’re now making a European focused brand more so even than it is now sure and there and then and then if dmania brings in Ganon then you’re like okay that all makes a lot of

Sense right but if they lose Nicholas to a Discraft or whoever mhm and so you know latitude War doesn’t sign anybody and then you know if they don’t sign G and a dis Mania then it’s like okay well is your strategy to just like cut costs as much as you can because I’m

Not sure that’s going to work out for the long term every company comes back to signing the big players remember all those years Discraft had like dos and nobody else like dos wasn’t even touring everybody was like Discraft you know what a what a loser company what you know their team

Sucks and then they signed MC Beth and completely overhauled what people thought of them as a business yep and the popularity of their discs went through the roof like everybody comes back to signing players because it’s good marketing sure and so I I’m really curious to see where conglomerate you

Know private Equity backed company is going to do in the sponsorship Department because it’s been quiet so so far it’s been all net negative so far right have they signed anybody of note not not even a note like like they resigned a couple of guys and and that’s

It I’m like looking at the I mean they have some latitude 64 has some promising names from Europe but nobody that’s like a huge name and you know disc Mania is kind of sitting tight on the players that they’ve had in the past I mean Kyle Klein is under a long-term deal through

2026 so you know that’s that’s kind of where that’s their best player yep by far uh interesting at at House of diss you mean I was specifically a dis Mania okay all right obviously House of dis Kristen is the star right well you got Kristen and then you also I mean you got

To got to include Ricky rap Ricky in there with with Kyle Klein right sure sure um all right we’re going to take a break when we come back we have uh we have an interesting chart from a disc golf coach he’s ranking his top 15 power throwers in the world we’re

Going to talk about it Next at pound the quality of our gear runs deeper than the stitching that’s why we make everything right here in the US employing highly skilled well-paid professionals from bombproof Cordura fabric to YKK zippers and recycled Plastics we Source the highest quality us materials to make the most comfortable durable pack and discall our

Lifetime warranty stays with the pack not the purchaser so regardless of how you find us we will be here to make sure your pack stays on the course and out of the landfill pounds Integrity is held together with more than just Threat welcome back to the upshot so Josh we got a little we got a little table to look at a little chart here it is this is coach Taylor’s top 15 power throwers his 2023 2024 world rankings okay who is this guy well he’s a disc golf coach he’s got an Instagram account

It’s uh coach Chris Taylor with underscores between the words and he made this little table of top 15 power throwers now you’ll see that it contains a number of Statistics from the tech dis data that you can get with the tech dis product that you throw the disc and it

Tracks how hard you threw it with how much spin nose angle uh how much wobble you have in your throws all of that stuff now you’ll see that these are not an objective ranking but rather his personal subjective ranking that is Loosely related to the data so whether

Or not you want to talk about the rankings themselves we can but I’m interested in looking a little bit more at the data and kind of comparing it to each other so number one on this list which I mean if I don’t I don’t think you have a legitimate list if David

Wiggins Jr is not number one on the list um he has the highest recorded Tech dis number on this chart although I think Bella has been speed gunned at higher values in the I think that’s correct but David wigg Jr 84.7 m per hour release 1552 revolutions per minute a minus 1.4

Degree nose angle uh but a good amount of wobble 6.9 I mean I don’t exactly know what that number means but the highest number on this list but I mean the dude throws the absolute crap out of the disc right R yes that’s if you didn’t know that um

Uh welcome from out Welcome to the Real World and climbing out from under your rock like yeah yeah I makes sense and I think it provides a nice Benchmark for looking at those statistics right because I I I don’t know I’ve not followed a ton of this Tech dis data and

And what it all means exactly and and so it’s hard I mean miles per hour is easy to kind of contextualize because of baseball pitching right you can look at like I know baseball pitching speeds I look at this and I go okay I see like it

Makes sense to me I know you know I could I understand those numbers 1500 RPMs doesn’t mean anything to me uh not yet right not yet exactly not yet spin rate’s a big thing in baseball yes because of the impact that it has on the breaking ball and whatnot right we don’t

Really talk about it in disc golf yet but that’s because we haven’t had the tools and like we actually have the tools now and we can look at the RPM spin rate comparison of these different players exactly because I think there’s some interesting notes there and and

That’s exactly the point I wanted to bring up right so so David Wiggins comes in at the 1500 RPM Mark the negative 1.4 nose angle and the 6.9 wobble and that allows us then to look down this list and kind of contextualize that because we know how far David Wiggins Jr throws

And take that miles per hour which has been the base metric of how we’ve measured how like oh yeah someone throws far look how fast they throw and and provide the rest of the statistics and then work it down with the rest of this chart so very interesting exercise and

I’m excited to to talk a little about this okay so let me just give you the list if you’re listening on the podcast and not watching on YouTube just so that you have his rankings of top 15 starting in number one David Wiggins Jr Anthony Bella Eagle McMahon Christian quoka

Ellie midling Albert Tom Simon lazat double G Rasmus sodipe Ella Hansen Alex Geisinger henna blamus Adam Hamas Ezra aderhold Thomas Gilbert now obviously like by definition like some the women on this chart do not throw as far as the men on this chart but you get the concept here right like relative to

Their division you know having Ellie midling in five doesn’t feel crazy she legit throws 70 miles per hour that is five miles per hour faster than Ella Hansen throws and she’s she’s 16 right right I think she turned 16 this year that is just so crazy we are potentially witnessing like future Superstar

Emerging for our eyes mhm um so here’s okay I got to draw attention Josh to double G okay I are you surprised he’s at eight on this list first of all uh I was surprised I I when I when I without looking at the data when I just looked at the list when

Double G was an eight especially behind you know like Simon right now Albert Tom I I probably would have him I thought double G was top five maybe not number one anymore but I thought like bottom like top like yeah like Wiggins Bella sure like quoka fine and then double G the double

G yeah yeah yeah exactly here this is amazing and this is why I think this data is going to be like long-term revolutionary for disc golf as especially as we learn to coach it better double G has the lowest miles per hour on his throw of any of the men on

This list M 75.3 obviously still Elite number but below Ezra aderhold Adam hamus well below ab and David Wiggins M but does he really I mean obviously AB throws farther than him but he is like next up yes but look at this 75.3 but he has the

Highest spin rate 1675 RPMs that’s 125 more than David Wiggins and his nose angle minus 7.2 de crazy with the lowest wobble on this chart 1.2 he has the cleanest spinni release of any power thrower that we know of right now with an extremely aggressively downward nose

Angle right he gets that high release with the negative nose angle and that’s how you throw far in dis golf it’s it’s look at Ella Hansen as well right she she’s a full 5 miles an hour behind Ellie midling but is about 80 rotations per minute faster but her nose angle Ellie midling

Is negative .1 ell Hansen 66.7 uh half the Wobble the Le has same thing it’s it’s exactly the same story there I I think this shows that Ellie midling has Room to Grow I agree CU you look at the other top power throwers and they’re mostly throwing with more

Downward nose angle MH yep and and that’s what’s interesting to me is I wonder if David Wiggins and Anthony Barella were to work on getting that nose angle down to you know the double g or La Hansen levels does that does that mean they have more distance capacity with the

Right coaching that is the question like is there more in the tank right or is it because they throw so hard they can’t put that much downward angle on it this genuinely just don’t know exactly the physics of enough I don’t think do do we have the tools to talk

About this yet as you know even like for elite experienced throwers I don’t I don’t think so that’s that’s why I mean this is fascinating but it’s it’s it is the first step in a very long journey to getting to the point where we can coach throwing and nose angle and and

Coach the top players to be better right you you can you could take it an amateur and and have them throw a disc right if you and I were to go throw with this Tech disc like anybody could look at that data and be like I uh you got a

Couple I mean your your miles per hour are quite slow even for your division right I’ve I’ve thrown it Josh I uh have you I don’t think I’d make this list I have yeah it’s really cool I think my biggest problem is nose angle okay which

Is unsurprising as I have an come from an ultimate background I throw a lot of nose up and that’s hard for me to correct that that makes I also don’t throw particularly hard but I you know I’ve never really worked on my Forum but this this is the kind of thing that you

Could throw a couple times and you’re like oh like I have very obvious things to get better at what what what’s interesting then and now right exactly so so that that’s that’s exactly the point amateurs easy you look at it you see it you know it the the interesting question

Is is it more is it is it if David Wiggins Jr kept his miles per hour the exact same is the $1,500 RPMs with a negative 1.5 nose angle and lots of wobble preferable to 167 RPMs with a negative 7.2 nose angle right okay I I just want

To point this out yeah I think what we’re g to do is in our inside the circle bonus segment for subscribers we’re gonna have the tech dis founder on the show if he will I I have not talked to him about it yet so we got to check

Yep we’ll have him on and we’ll talk about some of this stuff what you seen where like like look at these numbers and let’s talk about the let’s contextualize them for what you’ve seen so far I mean this product has only existed for like six months or something

So it’s not like we have years and years of data but I would imagine we’ll be able to talk more about how some of those you know like should you throw less hard but with more spin like relatively right would it be better if AB threw 78 with 100 more

Rotations per minute on the disc I don’t know I don’t either but it is pretty cool who who was the biggest surprise to you on this list uh I think the biggest surprise is that Christian qua throws 83 miles per hour cuz I I I knew he was a bomber but

Like that’s like real big number that’s more than AB yeah that’s that’s a big number what about you um I I would probably say the the bottom bottom two guy or two of the bottom guys the Adam hamus and tobert Gil Thomas Gilbert made that made the list you you

Sleep you’re sleeping on Thomas Gilbert I’m sleeping on both of them to be honest if you would if you would just now Thomas Gilbert has the second highest spin rate after Double G at 1600 so uh also um the second lowest wobble rate dou G’s 1.2 Thomas Thomas gillard’s

1.4 I got to be honest I mean I knew he was a big thrower but I in some ways I agree 78 mph 1600 RPM I like why isn’t he playing better right um so so I saw that I mean I would have expected I think it’s easy

To uh to associate top players with distance right so so if you would ask me for my list a lot of these make sense I wouldn’t have had Thomas Gilbert on I probably would have had Ganon bur in his place right uh or even a little higher

Up and I probably would have had Calvin somewhere on that list and and I know Calvin’s you know his impressiveness comes from his golf shots but still I I think you associate further throwers with with uh success on tour and because you consider a prerequisite but I think we’re reaching a point

Where you have top players who like there’s a certain distance threshold of what you truly need and then the rest is just kind of gravy and it doesn’t necessarily separate you in the same way I just looked up Thomas Gil ber stats yeah 388 on tour in Fairway hits 432nd

In OB rate over 20% it doesn’t matter if you can throw far if you can’t throw it straight there it is but I mean you wonder like take a little off could he could he step up a lot of very promising player still yeah um fascinating stuff

We will discuss it more in our inside the circle segment so join us there disc. uworld.com subscribe get into the Discord get ready for all of our live react shows this year looking forward to the season uh that’s going to do it for today’s edition of the upshot thank you

Very much Josh and we will talk to you all next Thursday in two days right here on the [Applause] upshot