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T-series Irons, can they improve your game? Will they add distance? How are they made? What does ‘forged’ really mean? Chris and Tony go on the road to find out!

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Hey what’s up everybody how you living no put giv we’re back we’re on site on location here at TPI Oceanside it’s a beautiful day we’re going to talk some irons te- series stuff but before we do that let’s do some introductions who who are you I

Don’t know today they know who I am got Tony cubby but we have two special guests uh people that know far more about this topic than we do so we’re going to talk to The Experts we have have Marne Marne what do you do I am the director of product development for the

Irons category at Titleist sclf so just basically responsible for these products right here you know start to finish essentially small job just easy good work if you can find it um we’ll have a lot of questions for Mar and we have JJ JJ what do you do here at

Titleist uh I’m the director of clubs on the PGA tour I’m the one who asks Marne for the impossible and makes him deliver each time well we’re going to get to that for sure but let’s start with just kind of big picture stuff so t- series maybe go back just really quickly to

Start the previous generation did really really well obviously on tour and at retail so in terms of starting with a new line of clubs what were kind of the design goals or what were those impossible things that you were asking for along that road and Marney goes I

Don’t know but we’ll figure it out yeah I think we always have one of the hardest meetings is right after a tour launch where Marne is kind of done with previous and well on the road to the next whatever and okay what else do you want and it’s normally that honeymoon

Phase where everything’s great so we have to draw out of our players and our tour reps those little changes and so like when you look at a t00 it is hey make it look like a blade feel like a blade but play like a game improvement club and those are those things that

We’re asking for and so the big one in this lineup was feel feel feel across the lineup with some small performance variables we were looking for so emphasis on feel and when when you talk about that a little bit cuz that I know you have big design emphasis but what does

That mean like when when tour players or people out there are saying Hey I want a club that feels better how do you translate that to Mar what what does better mean and then how do you figure out what better means like how do you go about that yeah I

Think um we’ve asked tour players for it and it’s the the coolest part when you talk about feel with a tour player is the pause describe feel there’s never like a quick answer on the tip of their tongue there’s always the okay I don’t know how to describe that but we’ve all

Hit a blade and you hit it right on the center and there’s that feedback up the shaft through your hand the the sound feedback that we all have felt and what probably got us hooked on golf in the first time we remember as a kid hitting

That shot and coming out of the center and reacting how we want and so it’s giving it to Marne and how do you quantify that yeah and so he talked about you know couple aspects so there’s the the tactile you know add impact which comes through the shaft into your

Hands into the rest of your body um and then the audible like the acoustic right so those two things like um in particular the acous especially we can measure right so we can take sound recordings out here at TPI and then we can compare that to our predictions and

Our models right so we have uh 3D CAD models of each of our products we can then take that into a simulation and kind of simulate how that club is going to respond audibly um in a computer how much how much prototyping you do in terms of like putting product into JJ’s

Players hands where it’s almost like the eye test right here’s two like better like this better like that now this one or that one is it how much is how much is purely that Tour player feedback like this is what feels good versus what you’re doing in the lab to say well this

This sound signature looks good yeah tour we is always the validation right so we have all our models and theories and everything else but proof is in the pudding when we give it to JJ and he takes it out on tour gives it to players to hit and if the response isn’t like

This is better from them then okay back to the drawing board but again so and we get pretty lucky on irons because he can hide Technologies in Old chassis that when you were all out had a Tour event you’re not going to see a picture and

Know a difference right so like in the t00 for example he handed me two irons one day and said go test this didn’t tell me what’s under the hood didn’t tell me what’s current and what’s got new technology in it and we put a piece

Of tape on the back and we took it to her Tour event and we would just have players hit a vers B tell me which feels better and we would just make little cross markings on it and when we got to the end of the week we just sent Marne a

Picture here’s this one here’s this one and one’s filled with dashes across the back he goes great that was a technology I was going to put in the next T100 to make it feel better and it one hands down and so it was like Okay We’re Off

To the Races on one thing to make that feel better so with that like what was it like what were you in that in that situation what were you what were you testing or what were you evaluating if it was so clear to yeah in the case of

The T100 it’s it’s all structural differences right the thickness in the upper cavity the thickness in the lower cavity that bar separating the two cavities yeah there what’s how that’s engineered the thickness of that as it goes across the face is is different from from the predecessor as well so are

We talking literally like fractions of millimeters of difference in some cases in the thicknesses for the face yeah um but for the bar there’s there’s pretty significant differences in the amount of support of the face Bas especially in the center versus the previous generation so just kind of go back and

Recap too from previous gen to this generation big emphasis on feel um do you feel like you achieved that you feel like that’s been like that’s been an overwhelming commentary you know we did and when we look at feel like we started a project years ago called Project Feel

Internally to to focus on MBS and what we looked at and we kind of stole some from the Voki team is soul matters CG position matters material matters structure matters and the refinements of the soul the refinements of the construction and all of that kind of was

A little bit like we’ve kind of learned in metalwoods is there’s not going to be one thing that’s going to just turn a light switch on you got to turn a bunch of lights on to brighten the room and so in this case we were talking to players

They were commentaries from like a a cam young just how that club got in and out of the ground differently and he felt the ball just on the face and feeling better uh players like Jordan spe talking about the short irons just the commentary of how much softer it felt um

So we I think nailed it on field but we’re also pushing Marne for performance hey who doesn’t like to have a long iron launch a little higher stay in the air a little bit better have a little more forgiveness so those are when we’re asking for the impossible is want it

Feel like a blade and perform like a t350 and so we’re trying to push those variables at the long end of the back where players often need help right and that is where our challenge is is really on that end of the bag especially to like generate more launch more more

Forgiveness on off off center hits but without it feeling bad correct right without it feeling I’m assuming they use terms yeah like like Hollow or clicky or you know loud at the at the wrong times right trying to do that what you with so the products you deal with on tour let’s

Take golf ball off the table for now but within in the club space is T100 the one that is is like the the ultimate don’t screw it make it way better or as better as you possibly can but don’t screw it up is that kind of

Number one on the list of club that are yes and no uh it you know it’s the most played Iron on professional tours worldwide but you know when we went from ap2 to the T Series it was hey we’re going to take a leap of faith we’re

Going to shrink this we’re going to remove offset we’re going to make some fairly significant changes and ap2 was pretty highly played and we let the influence of some tour players drive that design you know Marne came to an event and again the joke was always

Jordan spe he’d pull out a blade and go God I wish I was good enough to play these and he’d hit three or four shots you’re like well you’re good enough to play it but then he’d miss one just a little bit and he’d lose six or seven

Yards he goes That’s the shot that would cost me yeah and then he’d go back to hitting T1 Proto was at that time and he’d hit that same shot and he’d lose two or three yards he goes That’s the ball game for me and so I think that was

The the driver is there’s still performance variables there that we can push Marne you know find new ways to put tungsten in places do those things so we’re still trying to push but yeah there are a couple handcuffs in terms of size shape feel that we’re we’re keeping

On them in that T100 yeah and that was probably the largest jump going from ap2 to T100 because that was the decision right the decision was the T100 is going to be the ultimate tour iron so that’s when really tour was even more of a focus on that particular product

Especially to design it for the best players in the world interesting so let’s just kind of go through the lineup really quickly I know you know clubs have been out for for a while but some people might be seeing it for the first time so talked about T100 obviously like you said it’s

The of the forts the smallest Heel To Toe Etc you call it kind of the ultimate tour iron why why why would why does this one get that designation well you want to answer that you I’ll take that one we’re basically trying to comine a blade a CB and a game improvement iron

Into one thing make it look like a blade perform and feel like a CB and then give us in the long irons especially um forgiveness and launch that everybody’s looking for so it’s it’s trying to be in a lot of camps for a really good player

You know it’s fitting in a really nice spin variable it’s getting you know we’re in Loft progressions that are traditional More tour Lofts we’re in all those spaces that a tour player is looking for from all those attributes so you got that then we go to the

150 which I’m told they did not just bend and B no Bend and cocking on this one uh but this replaces the S right which we had t00 s before now we have t150 looks pretty similar to The 100 mhm so what are the key differences between

This and the 100 so this one in particular is for someone who’s just looking for a little bit more distance right they want a lot of the same aspects that T100 has but a little more distance a little bit more forgiveness a little bit more forgiving look from a

Dress as well so if you look at that from a dress you’ll see that the top line is a little bit thicker especially than it was in T 100s cuz if you remember T1 100s was the exact same shape and size as T100 before just right and B and yeah we got

Feedback from the market we got feedback from the market that hey you know it’s a little bit small for for you know this type of player so these subtle changes to the soul to the Top Line still keeping the same Loft progression at 2° stronger than T100 right um it warranted

That that name change with the size change my favorite part of the name change is Marne has a formula from blade length and head volume and all these other variables and compared T100 to this new model and what was it 49.6% difference so instead of calling

The T4 149.6 it became a t150 I like the 149.6 I yeah that’s interesting so you got t150 we got that then we go to T200 which some might argue that the this is the most substantially changed model from prior gen would you agree with that or I would disagree I’d say

It’s a 3 350 this was you know when you look at Hollow construction it is incredibly popular on tour on the 234 iron space you know that player that’s stemming the tide to um their Woods in their bag so this was a big driver from us from tour

Of hey there’s a lot of things our players like about the ball speed the launch but we have a feel issue here and really pushing Marne and his team to to improve the feel here yeah I mean but to your point there are every aspect of that club has changed pretty much except

For maybe the the the Leading Edge you know yeah in the number right but we did change the so the trailing Edge changed we changed you know how we attached the the muscle plate to the back we changed the chassis we changed the location of the the polymer core inside the

Thickness of the polymer core is different the face thicknesses are different and the the thickness profile across the face is different so it’s definitely changed a lot but still 350 is even more so before we get to 350 I want to ask you about this cuz this is this is one of the

Things that we do get comments on from time to time so this this badge piece this back piece it is pla plastic correct correct so why are you using plastic right convince convince people that it’s not just cuz Titus is trying to be cheap there’s a reason yes yes

It’s lighter weight right so anytime you can save weight and use that weight where you want it to help you with CG and mo Moi it’s just better it’s better combination that’s always the thing for me is everybody’s excited about multimaterial in a driver we went multi

Material and an iron here and that’s the the big performance variable when we look vers full steel constructions is he’s getting Mo Moi and CG in spots that other club heads aren’t which is why we’re seeing so much tour play in that space right and if you think about it

You look at you know metalwoods have been doing it for a while in terms of using carbon fiber right it’s a lightweight material that’s that’s primarily the main reason you use carbon fiber is to to be able to save the weight and then use it elsewhere what did you do like you said

One of the biggest challenges was it you know you said two three four iron guys on tour generate a lot of ball speed a lot of times the Acoustics are Amplified you know when you have guys that are hitting it that hard and so if something does sound too clicky or Hollow or

Whatever they’re really going to notice it so what did you do specifically on T200 to address those concerns fromers the face had a big face design had a big um part to do with that so there are areas of the face that were thicken and there are also areas of the

Face that were were made thinner right and how we did that really affected the acoustic along with again having the polymer core is very important to um the sound of of the club the the thickness of that polymer core changed as well which also helps the feel and then also

Kind of the location of where we we placed that it’s now a little bit closer towards Center face as well so all these things in combination you know help change was a cool Player test because during the process marney’s team made one change change to an iron like okay

Let’s do this one change and we’d have five or six out there they were all like okay that’s a little bit better and players would say that feels a little bit better and then he’s like what if we just do all of them and so we’ll just

Change all this stuff the structure of the muscle back plate how that’s adhered the face geometry the Mi all those things and go what if we just if all of them tuned it a little bit can we T in the volume way down by doing it all and

So like the the tap test on this one is completely different than um previously down to how you pull the ball in you know if you don’t think we put a microphone on how you rake a ball in you’re crazy cuz we we’re checking everything how it sounds rattling in

Your bag you name it yeah so JJ touched on a couple other things in terms of this muscle plate how it’s attached is different and also how this muscle plate is designed also it’s stiffness so the ribbing behind it is different as well which also changes the acoustic as

Well and then there’s a long iron version of that right there’s different builds there’s a utility version so there’s utility so that comes in 2 three4 Iron right and we found that these configurations were being fit more for players who are using T100 CB and MB

So you’ll also notice that we have a a 4 iron loft there at 23 versus the one in the that is is a different Loft right so but that that’s the reason why and then the real most changed iron the one that actually answers the question of what’s

Most changed the one I hate to love the one this is Tony has a LoveHate relationship with 350s um so big 350 yes this is the biggest baddest I feel like it’s because it’s 350% larger is that what it is was this part of your uh your math as

Well all the things that little bit compared to our Baseline of 100 this equal I’m not going to say it’s exactly the same as what we did with 150 but it definitely moved in that direction so talk me through this one who is it for what are the biggest

Changes because like I said it is the most change yeah so the way I like to talk about the whole line with that one being at the top is that should get a Ste no as you go from as you go from 100 to 350 right it’s there’s a priority on

Distance so if you want to play a 350 you’re probably wanting to hit it farther and as far as you can with an iron right so um this this is someone who prioritizes distance obviously also forgiveness as well from the look that we we give them um but looking at this

Product versus the T300 the most significant change is that now it’s using our multimaterial Hollow construction versus a a deep cavity back construction that we had in uh the T300 which a deep cavity back is is much more difficult to engineer great feel into versus this type of construction the

Hollow having having this muscle plate on the back really helps you mitigate um feel as well and this one just so you know is played on tour um we not a lot of pitching wedges though not a lot of pitching wedges 4 during a commercial shoot we had one

Built up just to have and zalat Taurus and hom decided let’s see how fast we can hit it and how high we can hit it yeah that was fun and we were you know getting in a four iron you know up in like 150 160 ft for them and so we have

U a couple players that move this in and out to replace a hybrid and a long iron because it launches so well and it’s got such great ball speed well and I’m glad you mentioned that cuz Marty you talked about you know this being for the player

Who wants more distance and certainly I see that but during my fitting here with Joey it was it was really about trying to get the ball higher raise that Peak height and so it’s it’s counterintuitive to to think this is the strongest lofted in the lineup significantly more Loft on

A 7even iron than the 100 and or less Loft I should say and for me I just hit it way higher and so like can you explain to people like the impact of of how you make that happen and why maybe they shouldn’t Focus so much on on the

Actual stock LOF right they see that they go oh it’s Loft jacking to a degree right we we know that this is true throughout the industry at different times theoretically right or in general you decrease Loft you’re hitting it with a more kind of blunt force it’s a cheap

Weight engineer distance but that’s not that wasn’t our experience with this one and it doesn’t sound like it’s been right others experience where like I said of the four it’s the lowest lofted but yet like when we were getting fit and going through we both hit this one

The highest so the the peak height on the 350 was too high for me like I was getting like 48 49° descent angle so now imagine if it was weak lofted yeah that’s right exactly right thing’s going to be coming backwards c as he moves CG you have to

Move Loft with it like they have to work together he drives CG down and you don’t strengthen it’s just going to get absurdly hot right and you guys have an amount of speed too so players with with not as much speed as you guys are not

Going to hit it as high as you do obviously right but the more speed you have the more you realize the benefits of a construction like this so the The Loft is going to give you speed but you know that face is also going to give you

More speed it’s also going to give you more launch the the construction of the body with the wide Sole and the CG placement is also going to help you get launch we put shafts in these irons that also help you get launch right so we’re doing everything we can to get the ball

Up in the air with this product for players especially that aren’t you know the fastest right so when you have speed though and I think if you look at all four of the the sols together you can see how that thickness changes and that helps to drive that

Center of gravity down right and so I think it’s that extensive testing of making sure the LOF vers CG are in the right spot because like when we talk about dispersion and distance and dis angle as a fitting variable the the distance one isn’t how far you hit it

It’s hitting it a consistent distance so now we have different forgivenesses based on your center of pit but that descent angle is we want the ball to stop and you know from a tour standpoint we focus on that a ton you know players playing the Honda Classic where the

Greens are the firmness of the this table a player wants their four and five iron to stop you know there’s no room to to chase it up on there where when I’m saying hey how far do you hit your five iron you’re talking about total distance

Your carry in total should be the same number yeah no I mean yeah just interesting that that’s where we are and in and the one that’s gone the 400’s gone Tony where did it go Marne where’ It Go Marne where’ the 400 go we still have the 400 it’s just not a

New model right so um it it was a product that I would say you know we brought a very similar um construction from a Japanese product called the vg3 type D right over and we kind of tested it in in the global market to see how it

Was received and you know it was received well you know by some markets but it it didn’t quite hit the target we were looking for you yeah globally right because it really was that that club was designed to go up against very specific products in Japan but we thought it

Would be interesting enough to try and bring it over to a global market see how it worked out and yeah you know I guess it’s a backhanded way of asking a question do you feel that this lineup you know kind of covers all the bases or

Do you feel like there’s still room to kind of explore with other models potentially uh I think there’s still room there’s definitely still room um to explore other models but this covers a pretty widespread right it’s you’re now talking like with other models you’re going to be getting into very specific niches of

Golfers you have toys JJ props well we talked a little bit about these are all about Project Feel and so you know we started this kind of years ago where we said how do you make the best feeling iron and the thought process was what if we try to make it

For one player instead of every player and then find out what we can learn and so along that we looked at materials we looked at center of gravity we looked at Soul design we looked at everything and we used Justin Thomas as our guinea pig

For it and we started to make him an iron and in doing that is we took advantage of marne’s team we took advantage of our machine shot with Scott canuteson and Milling product and so this is how his iron starts and then it works through a series of

Processes shaft that up we fig absolutely swing weight of z90 and as it works through the Milling process it allows us to kind of refine and get the shape so how how long does it take you to get to this point cuz obviously this didn’t just so that gets

Forged okay so this is the forge piece that’s the forge piece okay so you bang the shape and then start start and then we start cutting away what we don’t want right which seems to be a whole lot it seems to be plenty so out of that

Particular blank is we can make either a seven an eight a nine or a p out of that shape yeah we have a second one for long irons Scott’s got it down you can see here how he he Mills in you know his fixture Point here there’s a nice dub

Tail on this thing here that you can see so that way that allows him to then get a very good reference point to then Mill the rest of the iron very precisely so like this was one of the early prototypes wait so when you’re doing this with so

This again this you know like you said Justin’s kind of the guinea pig there what were you testing specifically with this set in terms of feel for him cuz like you said it’s just can we go outside hiits we got hi camera I don’t I

Don’t know I think it’s worth a try so no PR sure it’s not you you know you want to look at multimaterial ball Striker let’s let’s make a one of a kind multimaterial iron um JT hit that one and said it didn’t feel very good mhm and so okay

Let’s look at it didn’t feel good presumably because it was multimaterial and so you’re trying to move variables around let’s make movable weight yep see different center of gravity locations if he likes it more towards the toe the he this this one here obviously had kind of two little

Pockets heel and toe and then presumably maybe some or Y in the middle Ian there’s no top line on this at all but he did not like that one that one didn’t feel good uh we looked at uh Soul shape so this one’s got a little wider sole to

It we kind of even went into our old bag of tricks and we pulled out retro models mhm oh and this is all to reiterate this is all just trying to tune feel right this isn’t even the the performance piece of the equation he had had a major

With his his 620 MBS it was how can we make this better for one player and through that process you know we found things about Soul geometry it was partially how we ended up in the variable bounce Soul we found a little bit about where Marne is placing CG and

So we were able to take those one-offs and push marne’s team into putting those into um inline products that are better for you and I I don’t think that one has a Top Line what do you need it for well that’s again the the cool part about it is

Justin Thomas plays a t00 for him and so he realizes that all this cool stuff at some point didn’t give him enough performance at the very top end of his bag so he does it through a five iron and said hey I need more help beyond

That showed him a T1 and goes Yep this feels like my other irons but gives me launch and forgiveness where I need it so that’s a good segue CU we we talked when and we were with Marne when pre-launch talked about the idea of mixing and matching and building a combo

Set so that you’re maintaining that 5 mph ball speed between irons and and making sure that you’re hitting those descent angles what percentage of the guys you work with on tour are using some type of Blended set versus yeah I’m you know t00 from four iron through

Through 9 iron we’re just over 80% are mixing sets and it could be you know again the Justin Thomas who is 5 through MB and then a T14 iron um you have um other players that are putting multiple irons in where they could have a T1 or

T2 long iron and then move to CB then move to MB you know we have a few with three different model types so what we’re trying to do is not you know if you looked at some companies 10 15 years ago you’d see a player with different shafts throughout

Their set and what we find is that that’s really hard I always do the the par three or the reachable par five example if you’re bringing two clubs up to the te on that really long par three you don’t want them to feel different and that feel is shaft Flex or shaft

Weight and Club head so what we’re trying to do is create those ball speed gaps and create the launch conditions we want through head design so if you play a dynamic gold in your five iron I don’t want to you know throw something super

Light and soft of in your forer and if I can have the head give me the help so for the average golfer though right who can’t come here and work with your fitting team and and literally have uh every Club in the bag to work through how how does the average golfer who’s

Going to go into a big box store and get fit that way figure out where he needs to split the set if he’s going to maintain those those constant speeds and launch conditions you talked about well I think um you know our product specialists around the country country

Is we’ve kind of gone through this with our sales and marketing team and said hey we need to reinvest in Long iron fitting packs you know the fit off the seven iron and calling it a day you know your your subscribers and readers are are showing that you guys have really

Done a great job of showing that every Club in your bag matters and so finding places that are carrying more than just a seven iron is important um so that you can see those performance variables uh we have other tools that allow you with looking at launch conditions off of

Seven and your ball speed to kind of have a sense on where where those brakes go uh but finding Fitters that have a little bit more tools really kind of help drive you into positions uh that you’re going to have a bag that you’re going to be successful and really happy

With yeah and how much of it like again kind of this fitting environment philosophy we talked with could you kind of roll this out at the same time as as project F and the new uh the new irons is kind of the you know dip dive duck

Dodge and dip and dive and all these we talk about the dees right the 3DS we have our distance which you talked about as distance control distance consistency right and control not just maximum distance but talk about those three elements and and like how important are

Those on tour you know we we can talk about how important they are in a retail environment cuz we’ve been through that and I think that part’s pretty clear but are you using kind of those same philosophies and things like you know when you’re fitting a Justin Thomas or a

Jordan spe who apparently can’t hit muscle backs that you know the same kind of thing the beauty here at Titus is that we we’ve kind of utilized the Pyramid of influence for a long time and said hey you know I always steal the line from Bob vogi of I have the

Greatest testers in the world because I can just take it out to tour and get feedback right away um that that’s a pretty good testing group if something feels good flies good so that’s kind of where the 3DS were derived from is what we you know how often Tony do you get

Asked what’s the perfect spin on a driver yeah constantly you’re like well I need all these other variables give me about five more pieces of information you need some spin you need some spin that’s a better answer you need some not too much um and so we

Would get that from tour players and so what we found you know utilizing launch monitors is that Peak height really kind of became a thing it’s an easy fitting variable for me is I like to kind of just show players their window and work them up or down

From you know it was a player that grew up in Texas they’re now playing on the PJ tour we’re going to have to try to creep your window up and I that kind of turned in and was a different way to talk about descent angle right and when

We always talked about whether it’s golf ball fitting or anything else is that standard deviation of what’s your highest spin what’s your lowest spin so now now that became that kind of distance control variable that we could uh move down and I think we all kind of

Know dispersion but you know again how do you quantify the left and rightness of something um and as shotlink on tour has become a bigger thing is we can really really start quantifying a lot of those things for players and looks at parts of their bag you know Max homo was

A fun example of that he was one of my last full blade players and you know put the seven wood in from taking a three iron out said I’m going to use it one week at Tory and then it never left the bag and then comes out here and we were

Able to look at Stats that Max had become Elite ball Striker everywhere to 200 yards and outside 200 he was 140th Plus in proximity and his caddy and Coach are laughing we ended up pulling at that point 100 well they had been telling him but a

Stat drove that home and we pull week in 100s and he just starts hitting these beautiful gorgeous long irons and they’re just chuckling behind like we’ve been begging him to do something for a while and he starts hitting shots off down slopes and 3 weeks later his

Caddy’s like hey make him a five iron and so it’s slowly like moving down Max’s bag so then we go you know to Mar team is how do we quantify that for everybody has that has that changed with times as we we hear about tour players being notorious stuck in their ways not

Wanting to change anything because you know they wanted tournament with this setup 6 years ago and that kind of thing in in the age of data now where you have all these stats at your disposal has it become easier to to kind of convince a guy like come on man like look it’s

Right here make the change I think so and we’re big on team environments so if I’m going to sit down with you know if you’re the player and you’re the swing coach and you’re the mental coach or caddy and and I’m the Fitters the three

Of us at some point can put the paper in front of you and said let’s make a decision on what we want to do sounds like an intervention but we do more fitting start in this room than on the te 15 years ago where okay let’s just walk through your bag

And see what you know is it’s a little bit like getting your chart hey we did blood work before you got into your appointment here’s where things are going to hurt let’s go let’s go work the rehab right well and I think it’s funny you mention dispersion too I think part

Of that the first part of it makes total sense people see accuracy right in terms of Left Right like nothing better right than hitting that iron shot you look up and it is going right where you think it is right and then it carries 15 yard too

Far or it comes up eight yard short so I think the other part of that dispersion that I took from mine was like that front back number so that you’re not hitting you’re not catching one pure and going and all of a sudden it drops 800

RPM and just takes off like a flyer right or the other piece being you catch it a little bit thin maybe and and now it comes up way way way short you know that that’s part of it as well so it’s not just left right it’s

Front to back as well yeah I think that’s the hard part for myy is he’s got to keep the ball speed and spin consistency around the face for every player and then make all those shots still feel good right and in particular for for 200 I mean there was there was a

Goal there for that player in particular cuz we were getting some feedback that this player was seeing some shots fly a little bit longer than they they’d like and so this iron has been improved in that aspect right that that that shot that’s a little bit high on the face is

Going to be closer to that Center Turf shot that you’re you’re used to your stock distance yeah what about so we talked yeah we have these before you mentioned having players like Max that was kind of one of the last muscle back holdouts maybe a little bit but you’ve

Also had some players go to muscle back is this project has kind of kind of taken off whether it’s a Camy young or or or others what are they finding in that type of process that they’re not going to be able to get in kind of this

Retail environment that the rest of us kind of live in yeah you know what we see a lot with tour players I had a tour player tell me years ago um they were between an NBA and a T100 that they hit more greens with a T1 I made more

Birdies with an MB and a little of their thought was I’d rather miss a cut but when I’m on shoot 65 than shoot 70 a lot um you know PJ tour tucks a lot of pins puts it a lot of shelves so on their scoring irons is they’re often looking

For shape so they’re looking for Less forgiveness is they don’t want stability in the blade they want that thing to move cuz I’m going to try to get it to the back right and I’m going to flight a cut and try to get it to skip up on that

Shelf and when I’m on I want to hit a lot of shots close and make a lot of birdies and then when you look at like a cam Young when he gets to a four iron he’s not hitting that shot you know he wants it to launch High be forgiving

Work off a variety of slopes so that’s why he’s four and five he’s he’s a t23 iron because that’s typically a t-shot club for him 45 t00 where I want some forgiveness and then 6 through nine iron in his MB yeah and so in that six and N

Where I’m uh or from him 789 where I’m really looking for shape and so where Marne was able to kind of make him a special six iron that floats that Soul wh a little bit closer to his T1 cuz that’s the one club’s like I don’t know

If I want to play a blade and I don’t know if I want to play a T1 so can I get kind of a tweener and that’s where we’re kind of finding these little nudged areas for specific players um but he’s still looking for help at the top and of

The back yeah and I would say i’ add to that that it’s very specific things that like in particular with Cam Smith and this six iron like cam young Camy young sorry Camy young can you just make this six iron fly a little bit higher is that

Possible I love the way this looks I love the way it goes through the ground everything about it but if it could just go a little bit higher that’d be great and so that’s a very specific thing that we were able to do talking three to five

Feet right right right yeah is that you think kind of the the future of of fitting at the tour level is almost like hey we we’ve got these guys and and we can make them these one-offs these very slightly tuned one-offs exactly where they need it you

Know I think everybody at this table probably swings harder at their lob wedge than any Tour player um so the distance gap between the driver where they swing it really hard and their lob wedge that they’re swinging really soft is our ball speeds on a LV wedge versus

A tour player aren’t very different but our ball speeds versus a driver are very different so there’s still always going to be room at that top end of the bag where they’re trying to make a club do a lot of things so that Hollow construction gives us a

Lot you know what we’re seeing is a little bit you know part of the reason we we tried some of this at the tour side is I’m always jealous that Aaron has so many lob wedge tools to work with is so he gets a bigger toy box and what

We’re finding are some similarities and so it kind of goes back to some of our roots and saying okay when we graph this all out where are these overlaps and can it actually help a lot of players and not just one and you know where is this

Kind of almost flighted set where those long irons are launching really high and have really good ball speeds and the short irons are a little bit different more control a little almost lower launching where we’re controlling those Peak heights yeah it kind of makes me think

To talk about what’s next right cuz cuz you’re always working on what’s next right you’re down the runway on whatever you’re about to ask him what the next Concept in his head is I was going to ask him if there were any conceptual models or I well two-part question

Number one is I’m I’m struggling to see within the lineup like where a CB goes you know where it’s like every time you make an MB better it turns into the T100 and so I’m struggling to see like where where just like like I said a single piece forg cavity back

Iron fits in this situation because the T100 is so good not because there isn’t a place for it but because of that so that’s one question and then yes conceptually um cuz it is a question we get right like we had the concept irons we’ve seen them we haven’t seen anything

New in that line is there anything coming that people should be excited about or or what is the state of yeah the best answer I can give you is that potentially there is something coming right because there are things that we’re always working on which could potentially make it into a concept

Product it’s just whether or not they pan out into the performance difference that we were hoping for or or just just to make a compelling enough case to be a product of that nature because we we want to bring a concept product out because there’s something different

About it you know it’s not it’s not just going to be you know similar performance to a t350 there’s got to be something about it that’s new unique different pushing the limits in some way and that’s the reason to bring it out right and that that doesn’t come every year

Right so or even every two years right so it’s been a little while since we’ve had one um CU again we’re we’re kind of um we’re kind of greedy in that respect that we really want these products to have a big difference and if it doesn’t

Then it’s not coming out how much of what’s in there right now came from what was or I guess still it’s funny that you mentioned that because not many people have asked that question and the max impact technology was actually slated to be a concept iron but because of the the

The performance differences we were seeing in that technology our boss at the time Dan Stone said we need to pull that forward that needs to become Global product right away we’re not we’re not going to wait for it to be a concept product and then bring it into the global line

Um the LF technology as well is something that was being developed for for concept products as well but you know we brought that out early as well what about the CV does that live on do you think or is that it still has a it still has a place

It’s out there in in a few numbers and and there is a so difference there so between the MB and the CV that’s where probably the largest difference is is terms of the sole the long irons are a little a little bit more forgiving and launch um into three and four especially

So um yeah I mean that that’s where that that product fits um I mean JJ you can speak more to that than than anybody else I think Marne was in charge of its own demise by making the T1 look so good and feels so good um you know we uh a

Funny one on that is Tom hogi who is ninth on tour in Strokes SK approach uh came to our sales meeting and he was hitting for irons of all the new stuff and he was a CB 4 iron user and as he was leaving the day he’s like uh yeah

You’re going to have to send me that 4 iron in the T100 and he s swapped out his CB4 iron um because he just saw that little bit of benefit and you know those two are players always looking for that 1% better and so there was a you know

Player that was doing us a favor at sales meeting and that turned into yeah I’m going to need one of those um so you know I think that CB has a place on tour that’s still you know in play but that T1 has taken a number of that players because it sits

So perfectly where it is kind of a CB product but gives you a little bit more forgiveness and in this new one with all the feel of that it it just checks so many boxes well that’s what got me thinking about you said it’s the ultimate toour iron right this idea of

Looking very muscle back is you know at at a dress but having qualities of a CB iron like it almost can’t help but cannibalize it to a degree like that’s kind of what it’s designed to do it seems to do it pretty well the guys you work with JJ like I’m curious we’ve

Got a lot to choose from we’ve got a history of of things to choose from the guys you work with who has what you would consider to be kind of the oddest setup right now howest setup I mean top of my head you know they’re a player like Cameron young to

To have three different mod very distinct models is unique you know we to to have that T200 with a hollow construction and then a T100 45 and then you know this one ofak kind MB that he he’s recently put in is a very kind of unique setup that I don’t think would

Paired with X7 uh iron shafts is kind of just a unique setup um that again is I’m looking for kind of ball flight control and lower flight and kind of really liked the X7 and what that felt like and then cuz he’s changed a lot when he was

On the corn fairy tour he was like just give me spin I’m I’m fine he would go driver fivewood uh at that time and wouldn’t carry even a three-wood that’s how I play some part three I was say right you know and then on tour you know

Moving into kind of a three-wood seven wood and then sometimes hybrid and then he’s again found like like I love the stability of this really heavy stiff iron shaft and I’m going to just use iron heads to help me at the top end of

The bag you know it is just kind of a unique setup in in that sense um you know we’re like a Brian Harmon who goes from CB to a hollow body construction and plays multiple um I think that’s always the cool part is each individual is fit individually and for 14 clubs you

Know where at the very least I think it’d be so intriguing for a consumer I mean I’m you guys post stuff all the time on like Aros data like the average player doesn’t even know how far it goes much less how high it goes right and what the stopping angle of all their

Clubs are you know and and kind of driving that you know even some tour players are high level amateurs like what’s the lowest Club in your bag it’s your lob wedge is the lowest Flying Club in your bag which is when you know the vogi team is getting you in the right

Grind and getting fresh grooves I mean how fun is that first Fresh Groove one where that flight is low and ripping out just like that when you get the right four iron setup and your eyes are too low and you’re like w that’s up a hit so

I think kind of that uniqueness that all these tour players that all swing it so beautifully have this kind of you know uniqueness in shaft and head type and Loft and lie um that is kind of just adds to that for each individual player it’s so wild too

You see that variation on tour right where these elite players achieve similar results in a lot of different ways right but we have readers when like we you know show them a new adjustable drive like why do you need that why don’t you just learn how to swing yeah

Like best players in the world are yeah I I had a quick Side Story when I first started in the in golf industry and clubs I worked at a facility that had a small build room and there had been a Tour event back in the day day and I got

To hear from the old Club Pros that there’s always well they didn’t need that in the 70s 80s they did it even more they just did it themselves they would put lead slugs in Pimon heads they would shave down and change the Bulge and roll on a head they would back

Weight clubs they would hand grind their irons they would do crazy stuff back in the day to make it work we now can just do it on the tea with a wrench um and swap a head in and out or change a loft or a lie or bend it really quick we can

Just do things faster but the evolution of of getting your equipment to fit you has been there since the beginning of golf that’s W it is last question on fitting part so obviously it’s unbelievable to come out to TPI right and and work with Fitters and this place

All right I mean it’s average to above average but I mean there is a part over there that does yeah they could they could finish that part we’ll get that done by end of the day for you that would be good but what advice you know

We want consumers to get fit as a company we want consumers to get fit we know there are barriers to that right so if I’m a consumer I’m not going to come out to TPI maybe I’m a little nervous about getting fit maybe I want to hit a

Demo day or something like that what would you tell that person because the fitting part is so critical to get that performance right where does that person go how do they do something better than just walking in or ordering something off you know some online shop or

Whatever like tit.com yeah go to tit.com but I think honestly the answer is going to be go to tit list.com and type in your zip code and and see public private fittings that are available near you is looking at that list and finding that that our teams inside do a really good

Job of of curating that list of saying what’s available near me whether it’s at a club I’m a member at or a public facility or a demo day type thing you know my opinion would be the demo day is going to just add pressure and speed and time

Where that that’s going to cause more angst whereas if you can get into a one-on-one situation where the fitter can ask questions I think that’s probably year experience is here at TPI is when do I get to hit a golf ball why does he keep asking me questions um is

Having that fitter get to know you in your game who let you through the game who yeah and how did you get in here that’s the first question you know where you talked about Aaron Dill even asking you about your driver swing you’re like we’re doing wedges Aaron yeah what do

You new first day on the right first day must be new here that they can get to know your game real quickly find your Tendencies if you’re not swinging your best that day they can still get you in product that that’s going to help you solve those issues and you’re going to

At the end of the day what is the goal of a club fitting it’s that I’m going to have more more fun in the golf course which typically means I’m writing a smaller number on the scorecard and so having that fitter help Define that for you 14 times okay hitting it farther is

That going to make you happier is it hitting it straighter let’s find those answers throughout your bag yeah no it’s works for me it’s good other questions Tony anything else that we miss is there anything else on t- series that you’re like man this is the

One thing people ever hear about title T Series what do you want them to walk away with what what didn’t we get to what’s something you want to make sure everybody understands well I’d want them to say if they haven’t experienced the product go experience the product and that’ll

That’ll give them everything they need to know you know it’s like just go find a fitter find a place where you can demo this product and it speaks for itself that’d be the big thing for me is you know I think for both of you even

Don’t go in knowing which model I want go in saying I want something that performs and feels great and then let that fitting drive you to the mix that’s going to do that for you yeah that’s how it played out for I was going to say sometimes and sometimes that means you

End up with the 350s Tony sometimes sometimes that’s exactly what it what it means but it’s a big Iron it is a big Iron and it’s perfectly fit for you so and it’s but it’s not the biggest iron right there are definitely bigger irons out there right but we’ve chosen that as

Our factor for our largest iron I think it looks pretty good it works unfortunately for me well thank you guys for your time and knowledge and sharing some of that with us you’re going to have questions out there people post them below let us know what we can

Do anything we can’t answer these guys will answer if they can’t answer it it’s just cuz they probably don’t want to or they’re legally bound not to answer it or something like that but uh until next time we Out