This has been one of those topics that I see on the forums so I thought I’d put my thoughts together and explain why I think that having an ASI on a SUB70 or light trike is absolutely pointless.
With regards to SSDR aircraft, please have a read here for the BMAA TIL 45, para 3.4 for clarification on the requirements of minimum instrumentation. https://www.bmaa.org/files/til_045_ssdr_handbook.pdf
A Permit To Fly aircraft, must have a minimum of an Altimeter and Air Speed Indicator, as set out in its BCAR S approval S1303.
Before you ask, no I didn’t destroy the ASI, I completely forgot to do it…so its still in my flying bag somewhere 🙂
I frequently get asked about the kit I use, all links or names are below.
compass mount
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1156719274/flexwing-mount-for-silva-un70-compass?click_key=908902db577ec70e2aafcd2ca02f289fb8f47099%3A1156719274&click_sum=33eee991&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=compass++silva&ref=sr_gallery-1-1
Compass Silva Un70.
My PeaBee radio and communications set up is:
ICARO SCARAB Helmet with MicroAvionics PM100 Bluetooth (Vlog modified by MicroAvionics)
https://www.microavionics.com/paramotor
My Airband radio ( I have the appropriate Licence) is :
https://www.microavionics.com/ Yaesu FT450 FTA .
Engine instruments:
Trailtech TTO Tech and CHT
Fuel gauge – Tiggy Aviation
Tiggy fuel flow and quantity device – Soon to be an upgrade coming out.
GPS
NAVITER OUDIE 5 PRO with FLARM
Electronic Conspicuity device
SkyEcho 2
Camera and Microphones:
Flight Briefing room
Video Camera 4K Camcorder ORDRO WiFi Ultra HD Vlog Camera and a ICE BLUE microphone
Flying cameras
GoPro 3+, GP6 and 7 with audio adaptor.
Camera Mounts/ cases
https://flybubble.com/flytec-bumblebee
https://www.flypureair.co.uk/store/Camera-Instrument-Mounts-c41420902
Flying Clothing:
FlyKandy Jacket and trousers
OZEE flying suit EXEAT and 30seven gloves
Sealskinz mittens
Editing software
Adobe Premier elements
Music – Epidemic Sounds – Subscription.
If you have put a comment down there and haven’t just darted straight to the comment section to start berating me which is more useful so hi everyone and welcome to the channel and tonight’s video tonight today whenever you’re watching this video is going to be about airs speeed
Indicators now this is more for the sub 70 and lighter end of U of the the clown that fly but it’s a really good discussion point because I see it so so many times on the forums I need an ASI I need a speed air speed indicator what
Air speed indicator are you using I need to know this information for landing etc etc I can guarantee you of all the times I’ve been flying my machine I very rarely I think it’s about three occasions I’ve known what speed I’m doing and that’s because I wanted to
Know what air speed the airwing was doing not what my Landing speed’s doing so this device here most people have seen these before uh it’s the whole air speed indicator uh I’m actually going to I’m actually going to smash this one up later on because they are absolutely
Pointless for when you’re flying a sub 70 and we’re going to chat about why in this video so stay tuned as to why I think they’re absolutely [Applause] pointless cool there’s bill you may have seen bill in the previous video who got a little bit annoyed with me that uh I’d accidentally
Left him and uh he made a hand gesture which I couldn’t quite see because of a sun sh but I’m sure it wasn’t polite but no feels cool um we’re going to go off this evening um there’s Fred ahead of us own tonight you lost your passenger one of the guys from parkour
Frequently comes in with his dad it’s definitely a nice evening I don’t know how many more these we’re going to get it’s uh pretty much 6:00 probably go back another 40 minutes or so two balloons up calm winds from the south it’s warm I’ve got my gloves on at the
Minute so uh yeah we’re going to go off on a local flight uh around caring to water if you’re not sure where caring to water is here it is on the screen and I’m letting Fred do the navigation tonight I’m just being his support uh we’ve done na flights together already
In the in the quantum we’ve been up to uh to bake well and catworth house and everything all just some basic visual nav but it’s just nice for him to get out um and just stretch his legs a bit further than when you saw him in the
Previous video um and it’s great from my perspective to just see people on their Journey apparently I’m doing 9.8 mph I don’t believe it more traffic go Fox R whis Le Romeo lining up Runway 1 n for departure right all’s good checks complete Dall traffic golf Lima Romeo is [Applause] [Applause]
Rolling oh wow 1 2 3 4 5 seven balloons up tonight and I can’t go and Chase any of them look at that they might be there when we come back that’s going to be cool there’s six there now as More’s launched it is absolutely butter aare that Smoke’s pretty much going straight
Up threads off like a rocket I never been flying when there’s so many balloons up so let’s talk about air speed indicators for a flex swing so might sounded a bit like I was trying to make a point in like my intro to the video but it’s a question I get frequently and
It’s part of the brief that I sometimes give when I take Trail flights in that if all the instruments in a flex swing fail and effec in a PB apart from a compass ignore that cuz I routinely fly without my GPS and vertical speed indicator you can quite happily fly it
You’ve got your attitude which tells you whether the nose are up or down left or right it doesn’t require any batteries and you have this wonderful thing called hands-off trim and when I’ve tried to do the previous flights to work out what speed it flies at that’s the only time I
Actually had an air speed indicator on it and I was balancing that with the ground speed to try and work out in four directions to work out what wi Wings what the wing speed was so in short sure the aircraft will fly at hands off
Trim if you came in to land at hands off trim you’re fast enough the aircraft flies if you’re this side of hands-off trim you’re going to be faster and you’re going to have more energy so generally when you see me Landing in the PB cuz it doesn’t come down I’m pulling
Back on the bar cuz I want more speed I want more speed and more control if I’m forward of hands-off trim I’m going to be slower than that speed so we know that the aircraft flies quite happily at hands-off speed either in the climb or in The Descent so why do
You need an air speed indicator the wing tells you what’s going on that’s the joy of it that’s that’s generally why I think for a sub7 that the it’s too much information it could be inaccurate it could stick and give you false information whereas the bar position is
Always telling you what your air speed is faster slower it’s as simple as that if you think I’m wrong and you think there’s a different there’s a different reason that you want an airp speed indicator then by all means drop uh your thoughts in the comment I’m not
Saying that’s my mind set that’s just my thoughts and opinions but equally so it’s been valid for 4 years of flying this airplane I don’t have one don’t need one let’s go faster okay now cavat that with the fact that I’ve got a GPS that tells me my ground
Speed if you have put a comment down there and haven’t just darted straight to the comment section to start berating me which is more useful air speed or ground speed cuz I’m going somewhere my personal opinion would be that my ground speed is more useful than my air
Speed because it’s going to tell me how long it’s it’s going to take me to get there physically basically it’s like driving a car that’s my thoughts I’m now going to enjoy this wonderful evening Fred you’re in orbit mate it’s in absolute orbit I’ve done a cruise climb cuz I’m
Trying to be frugal with the old fuel we got an easy jet and Fred and I’m not sure which one’s going to win I think the easyjet’s going to win cuz he’s faster so I’m going to try and catch up with Fred now increase the power maintain the
Attitude there’s 50 51 52 mph 53 suck they got in 55 56 57 56 57 come on 57 come on 57 come on 57 no 57 there 58 yay 58 mph and relax back so the route that Fred and I have agreed is to go on the south side of carington
Water which looks very flat and nicely full for this time of year we’re going to Loop Round carington water keeping the wind turbines where they are rooting back in to daring Moore just don’t go any higher Fred Please A Dar traffic gold Fox drop whiskey Lima Romeo two ship of flex Wings inbound from a Northwest correction Northeast 4 miles to run for overhead joint for way 1 n right hand Dar Mall traic del [Applause] let’s get uh set up 993 okay r 1500t overhead so had a wonderful flight I
Think so far tonight I’ve counted 10 balloons and if I had a little bit more fuel I’d be going off and having a play with them tonight clearly with safe parameters but um yeah tonight it’s all about Fred interestingly enough Here’s a thought how many of you
That follow the channel that fly have someone that that’s mentored them and that have set them on a good path in their Aviation flying hobby or otherwise because um I feel quite privileged that there’s people in my life that have really you know all the way through my
Um my flying path I don’t want to say career um because it’s a journey when I was gliding there was a chap he was next ARA flying instructor silver white hair slick back great big white handle bar mustache and it’s still stuck with me today since probably nearly 40 years
Near 30 years ago now and uh he said Giles very much like this Giles airplanes designed to fly themselves we just interfere with them and that for me is stuck with me forever love it I love Aviation Dar Moore traffic go Fox Dr whiskey Romeo dead side for Runway 1 n right hand
Darling M what blim me atmospherics are good today Speed Center Line one for you Chris there we straights foots off the brake speed looking long from ages ago so very quick outro for this one I really hope you enjoyed that uh good discussion point about air speed
Indicators um and why we really really don’t need them so so uh my thoughts uh drop a comment if you want to have a discussion about it I’m sure it’ll be an interesting one but uh just my thoughts anyway until next time everybody fly safe right you’re going to feel weird cuz
You’re going to be out camera shot aren’t you for most of This
38 Comments
A very valid point and I guess the speed envelope that the sub 70 operates at, with its low stall speed, means there is plenty of room for manoeuvre and you don't need to nail exact landing speeds as you do with larger GA. Plus you can feel it in the wing, unlike GA aircraft. Great video, no concerns from me.
hey Giles.. i only use ground speed .. and thats just on xc soar on my phone .. rarely look at it though only so i know how fast im going to get to a destination. so maybe more useful for navigation than anything else .
im sure you can agree its more of a feeling when your flying and you know how fast you need to be going in certain situations.
im very lucky to have my dad to teach me how to fly . without him i wouldnt have ever been off the ground . pretty sure you know my dad 😊😊
great to see a video 👍👍 the weather hasnt been nice to us latley has it .
have a great christmas and new year .. all the best 🎅🎅
Good video, good point well made… more to do with a comfort blanket really, but nothing wrong with that. In the end it’s ground speed you need. Though all very aircraft specific
Well you can guess my view 😁
I totally agree with you Giles. I think having an ASI on a small trike is just another bleed over from GA aircraft. People that used to fly 3 axis planes, or the people that are familiar with them, probably feel since they are needed on a 3 axis plane, they are also needed on a trike.
Here's another thought. I feel doing a 'controls check' on a trike is almost ridiculous. With a 3 axis plane, it is very important. With a 3 axis plane you are checking the numerous cables, pulleys, hinges and connections that make control of the airplane happen. In a trike, what do you have? A pivot point. I feel this is another bleed over from GA aircraft instruction. Don't get me wrong. I feel that the movement between the trike carriage and wing are important. This can be inspected during a preflight.
Thanks for the Great interesting videos and have a Wonderful Christmas Giles…. Look fwd to more next year from you and fellow flyers
I was taught and told, instruments are secondary and as for flying a sub which I did, its all a bit zen and about feel and response, but what do I know…. oh and after watching this, the days are now getting longer !
Your explanation makes perfect sense. Thanks for the video and Merry Christmas to you Giles! Not a ripple on Cassington Water and the turbines are out of a job. Great evening for flying!
But Giles, i still love my Hall ASI 😂🤣 you make some very good points though and completely agree that ground speed is more useful.
I hope you all have the best Christmas and looking forward to seeing you again soon for more shinanigans in the sky. 🤙
For these machines…my opinion is we don't need an ASI. Just like you don't need a an ASI for a PPG. These machines have so much inherent stability… they know what to do better then we know what to do. If you want to fight that stability by making it climb, turn or dive, the wing tells you what it's doing…you can feel the bar pressure…and that feed back is much more valuable than looking at a gauge. Great video…Thanks.
I believe as you explain quite well, that on a sub70, the best method would be the feel of the aircraft. I am quite disapointed, that I didn`t see you break the hall airspeed indicator!
I purchased the same ASI before I received my trike. I was told not to put it on until I am flying on my own – still in a box in a cupboard somewhere. Mark one eyeball and feel. Happy Christmas ALL x
It may be worth reminding people that sub70 flexwings are not microlights and that the majority of (section S) microlights are required to be fitted with an air speed indicator.
Agreed 💯
Don't need an ASI
Learn to fly by feel. The wing when setup properly knows how to fly. We should just give it suggestions on direction 😂
Great vid again, Giles. I treat my ASI like a God as it determines most of my decisions. But then, I sit inside a cockpit. I've never flown Sub70 but what you say makes complete sense 🤷🏼♂
Absolutely agree! An ASI is a “delayed” reading that attempts to let the pilot know their angle of attack. It lies with different weight and G loading as well. If it’s stall we want to avoid, don’t push the bar to the stall position. All well said! BUT I find your argument correct on ALL trikes. Even the heaviest 1000+ lb REVO that stalls at 51mph does NOT need an ASI.
I bought one. Used it twice. Flogged it. My BivvyBee has three speeds. Hands off, a bit slower and a bit faster. I can tell which one I’m flying at by feel on the bar. Spend the money on beer instead. 👍
Firstly, perfect quote from the RAF gent, and that links nicely to your point about the hands off trim speed 😁While flying, I agree, minimal use for the ASI, unless going some turns etc – but straight and level the trim state and engine revs define the airspeed and no need to check other than for information. A bit different for landing though – while my GT40 is definitely not a sub70, it was drilled into me in training not to let the airspeed drop below 60pmh solo, or 65pmh with a passenger, on final – and the Mk1 eyeball and Mk11 hearing doesn't quite cut it for that, but certainly once I'm over the numbers I'm not looking at airspeed at all – look ahead!!
ASI in fixed wing is the only instrument I wouldn't want to be without. We were taught to fly on power settings if you lose your ASI. Good points Giles and interesting subject, I see where you are coming from. Loved the thumbnail.
what model airctaft is it?
How I long for those balmy sunny evening flights, roll-on spring!!
Happy Christmas Giles, here's to much more excellent content in 2024!!!🍻🍺🍺🍺🍺
I full agree Giles with your thought on an ASI, I need one because I am flying a 3 axis and isolated from the air and have a trim system that can take me into or close to the danger of stall. For me when I flew paragliders and hang gliders I did not need any instruments but did like GPS for ground speed and position and a altemeter (with adjustable QNH) for vertical nav and a vario for thermaling.
It sounds like your instructor was the same as my old ATC power instructor. I did not have a mentor as such but in a way had a load of pilots that helped me develop when I flew floppies and hangies in Scotland (floppies in comps).
Hi Giles, really enjoyed your video. You know I am trying to convert. One thing that I have been hung up on is ASI and it’s apparent importance. You have lifted a weight from my shoulders. I have lessons booked and I am looking forward to them have a good Christmas . See you soon.
Totally agree Giles….ASI not needed at all…i only need to know ground speed so i know i will get back before it's dark😂
good vid giles and enjoy your xmas
Any aircraft in the smaller category, medium twins and less, can be flown safely with proper use of power and attitude. Yes, you do need to practice and be aware of what the proper attitudes are for each flight regime, climb, level descent etc, but it is not hard.
If you cannot deal with being minus a functioning ASI, then perhaps you need to up you basic skills.
Cheers
Yeah I had a Hall on my Adam but I took it off. Never even looked at it. Has anyone mounted a speed bar? Sometimes I feel like I could use more nose down pitch control when I hit gusts and thermals.
I fly gyros my instructor used to put his foot over the ASI if he thought I was doing more that occassionally glance at it. His point waa the stick will tell you speed if thei airframe is level and your on minimum power to hold altitude your spot on. Gyros hang like trikes though. He personally didnt have one on his single seat gyro. One day a student pointed out he was mandated to have one so he got out a niko pen and drew one on. The student pointed out his niko asi didnt indicate mph or knots so he wrote on pineapples.
Hi Giles, Having been flying GA Aircraft for more years than I care to recall, I am definitely in the " Boys Want Toys " mindset……. it is to some degree becoming the norm in 'Sub 70' for their pilots/owners to also crave the " Boys Want Toys " mindset.
I am inclined to think that some 'Sub 70' flyers are of the mindset that " They need an ASI because it acts as a Safety Blanket " In Flight I am far more focused on what my Groundspeed is for exactly the same reason that you focus on Groundspeed but obviously I am still very happy that as a GA Pilot I have the luxury of an ASI in the Panel 😉 Therefore if I ever seriously took up regular Sub 70 flying (* instead of just playing at it from time to time*) I would keep/find the Hall ASI to be an ' Essential Add On '
Now, I am going to pose another question that as Sub 70 is a Weight Restricted Flying Machine (* I know you are personally operating as a SSDR so not so Weight Restricted *) so the question is only aimed purely at Sub 70 flyers but I am sure you will want to answer as it is relevant:
Sub 70 is a simple recreational flying machine that in your opinion doesn't need an ASI….. Are there other Non essential add on's that you feel are surplus to requirements?
Let's look at: " Is an Altimeter essential? " As Sub 70 is a VFR only flying machine I am sure that height recognition can also be gauged by the Human Eye, so should the Altimeter be discarded?
Let's look at: " Is the Compass essential? " As Sub 70 is a VFR only simplified flying machine I am sure that VFR Navigation & recognition can also be gauged by the Human Eye, so should the Compass also be discarded?
My Point is that " If an ASI is not essential…. I am guessing that an Altimeter is possibly not essential either? I threw the Compass into the mix because it won't actually be 100% accurate on many flights? "
To back up the above paragraph " if a Sub 70 is being flown by any sensible person I am guessing that they consider a GPS as an 'Essential Add On' so it should have the ability to display a GROUNDSPEED as well as GPS ALTITUDE ( *Altitude NOT Height Above Ground*) & also have the ability to show the Track to desired waypoint 😉
" I did note that if I am not mistaken…..You set a QFE on returning to Darley Moor " so perhaps you do consider an Altimeter to be Essential.
" You thought you might get a healthy debate on this podcast " I hope you see my content as a healthy discussion for further thoughts 😉
Personally, I think as long as all the 'Toys that Boys Want' can be fitted under the 70kg limit, it is just personal preferences 😉
Maybe it could be useful for unusual attitudes (spiral dives) to be sure not to exceed VNE. Or to know your at or below rough air max speed? I guess if you know where the bar position is for the airspeed in those situations then then you would probably not need the asi .
Agree, I haven't had an ASI on any of my Trikes…but I do find GPS (ground speed) very useful.
PS: what mount are you using for the Sky Echo?
Another factor, especially for the smaller Flex wings, you have a narrow speed range, and you can feel the wind speed on you. It's like motorbiking, you can guesstimate the speed by how much you are being pushed backwards.
As for inspirations in flying. Paul Whitehead, he was both a CFI at Church Fenton, and instructor at Dishforth RAF gliding club. More recently you. I wanted to start microlighting in 85, but I've not been in the position to get started until recently. I hope to start, and complete my PPLM in 2024.
I’m going to remove my Hall Airspeed Meter from my Adam and see how the reduction in drag improves my airspeed – But how will I measure it 😉
I don't see any harm leaving my Halls ASI on the trike. Additional information is no bad thing. If it saves me from a single stall or exceeding the wing VNE just once, it will have been worth it. 🙂
I tend to agree with you Giles. I only used my ASI on my first flight to see what the trim airspeed and speed range of the wing was. After that I never really needed it again. If I was doing cross country, which I don't do in the electric Peabee (not YET!), I would definitely use the GPS ground speed. I think trikes are unique in this way since the wing trims at the same speed all the time, whereas a fixed wing can trim at various speeds. Thoughts on that?
I am a paraglider pilot. We relay on the same concept. Your speed is established by the height of the commands, so to speak. We have no trimmers or trimming regulators. We hang quite far low from the wing. But I would have said that in a hangglider some slight thing can put you out of trim.
I agree, an ASI is not necessary on a trike or hang glider. Fly by feel. I have had a Hall meter for 40+ years. Never flew with it on the HG, just used it to check the wind speed on the launch ramp. On the trike, I use it after a trim (or wing) change to compare the before and after, although most of the time I forget to look at it. I would like to find an inexpensive ASI with logging capabilities for overlaying airspeed onto a video. GPS ground speed, which is useful for range calculations, is built into my instrumentation panel that monitors the drive system.
Back in the 70's, hang gliders had very little bar pressure in any direction. We judged speed by sound. If the wing was flapping, you were flying too fast. If the wing went silent, you were in a stall. By the early 80's, designers had introduced sprogs (washout tubes), luff lines, billow shift, dihedral, battens, heavier & tighter sail cloth, etc. that not only made the gliders safer, but allowed the wing to give you feedback via control bar pressures. The only instrument I feel naked without is my altimeter/variometer, although I can fly without it.
I don't fly a flex-wing, sub-70 or otherwise. What I fly is somewhat different. I can understand that you can feel the onset of an impending stall (not something that affects us – we cannot stall, even if we stop dead in the sky), but how can tell when you are approaching Vne without an ASI ? Or, maybe Vne is as meaningless to you as "stall" is to us.
(If we go above Vne, it's the only time that "stall" becomes a serious concern – retreating blade stall on a teetering rotor system is going to lead to a fairly bad day).