We know that bike technology has changed a lot in the last 50 years, but how much? And beyond the tech, how does a modern bike with the latest wireless Campagnolo Super Record compare to the iconic Nuovo Record, ridden by the legend Eddy Merckx? Does it have the same soul? Si takes out two bikes to compare them.
In association with @CampagnoloSrl 👉 https://gcn.eu/Campagnolo
00:00 Intro: comparing today’s top tech with 50-year-old tech
00:53 Campagnolo’s latest wireless groupset – the Super Record Wireless
02:02 How will we compare the bikes?
02:30 Modern Bike: The Condor
03:26 Retro Bike: Our 1969 Race Bike Replica
05:05 Test 1, Part 1: The Leg Shredder Climb – Modern Bike
09:00 Test 1, Part 2: The Leg Shredder Climb – Retro Bike
12:15 The significance of the Nuovo Record Groupset
13:55 Test 2: The Time Trial
17:46 Conclusions: What gives a bike it’s ‘soul’?
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This is a replica of the most successful race bike of all time the clue is on the down Shi we built it from box fresh components that were made 54 years ago in this video we’re going to see just how much has changed between then and
Now plus see just how much faster a modern bike really is but more than just aerodynamics and rolling resistance I want to know how good this was and is there of the old soul left when swapping from vintage to Modern campolo are the world’s oldest group set manufacturer hell they invented the group set and they’re very kindly supplied us with their latest and greatest super record Wireless so we can directly compare the best of 69 with the best of 23 now few brands in cycling have quite such a loyal and passionate
Following as they do they’re Italian full of flare as famous for making super robust drop dead gorgeous components as they are winning races and actually campolo is the only thing that these two bikes have in common well I should say that they got two things in common they’re also both in my size Yes it means that not only can I ride them both we can also directly compare not one but two essentially new bikes to see how much faster the modern bike is plus also try and find out how much better it Is first I’m going to tackle a wall of a climb the hogo leg Shredder it’s a name that gets even T paga quaking in his boots probably anyway we’ll see whether or not the old dog can still get up it that is the bike and not me and then
Finally I’m going to put them to the test against the clock how much extra speed does 50 years of progress get you as we go I will talk you through some of the details of those bikes as well but first what is this Absol abute stunner
Well it is a bike from Condor Cycles a small super cool British brand based in London their bikes been raced by some very talented people over the years including sir Bradley Wiggins and I also got to race one as well in fact some people say that 2009 might have been the
High point for Condor when I say some people I think it might have been my mom that said that anyway this bike being handmade in Italy according to se tube it makes sense to Adorn it with Italy’s Finest components and as mentioned it’s got campo’s new super record Wireless on
There now that was released in 2023 it built on the previous four generations of campanello’s electronic EPS group sets but this time ditched the wires so the shifters communicate with the derailers now via Bluetooth and each Mech has its own battery compare that that to our 1969 race bike replica customade
Completely bespoke as all race bikes were back then now in 1969 Super record wasn’t a thing instead we had noovo record that was the choice of Eddie mg according to disra gears an oracle on such things as these noovo record redefined the whole derailer market for a generation it dominated the racing
Scene for 16 years but actually it part in history is even more significant than that and we’ll get on to in a moment first though let’s actually compare what the differences are between the two steel carbon 10 gears 24 gears cable actuated Wireless down tube shift Buttons a delicate click Rim brakes disc brakes you can customize this one with an app this one though much like your granddad doesn’t even know what an app is does all of that stuff make you faster though we’ll find out in a moment right now though it’s not speed I need
It’s gears cuz it’s time for the hogo leg Shredder I thought I had the K on the leg Shredder and I did actually until Andrew feather came and took it off me why Andrew why it is a random Lane in the middle of a forest it’s it’s just
Weird anyway the reason we’re going there now is not to try and take it back and it’s certainly not for fun cuz it’s a leg Shredder it ain’t going to be fun but it does make a really important point and that is that modern bikes can go places that older bikes couldn’t
Simply through gear Ratios here we go now procycling used enormous gears yes they went really fast but they also pedal really slowly and importantly they also didn’t go up ridiculously steep climbs now Pros go even faster and they use tiny gears which is great because we ask them as
Fans to go up ever steeper climbs for our entertainment and the reason they’re able to do that and US Mortals too is because we have so many more gears at our disposal more than double in fact as we’ve seen it means we need to sacrifice that all important ability to micro adjust our
Cadence our pedaling speed for big enough gear ratios we basically get to have our cake and eat It now the reason I bring this up is because it’s something that campol they say they focused on specifically with this new group set so what they’ve done is they we’ reduced the size of the cassette and also the chain ring so on this bike I’ve got a 10 to 29 at the
Back and 48 32 chain Rings you could go even smaller if you want there’s a 45 29 options as well and so what it means is that you’ve got low enough gears to be able to spin up anything from an Alpine giant to a dirty little leg Shredder and
Pedal comfortably down the other side plus you’ve got those small jumps between gears at the back so you can always find your optimal Cadence interestingly I actually did ask Eddie MKS once at a campan YOLO function whether or not he wished he’d had compact gears and he
Said when I was cist I didn’t need a compact actually I reckon he’d have gone quicker if he’d had one I didn’t say to to his face it’s Eddie bloody MKS but that’s what I was thinking this climb is an absolute horror and actually we’re Trucking along quite nicely even our camera motorbike
Struggling go on guys do you want a push do you want a little push hang let me let me come here there you go that’s it Andrew feather watch out final little kick that was the leg Shredder I know you’re thinking well it’s not that hard ha you just
Wait I’m not entirely sure I’m going to be able to get up that Here we go then this is going to be tough actually really tough and I’m at a bigger disadvantage than normal on this bike because these toe clips and straps as you can see I’m using my modern shoes on here they’re not designed for Tops and straps so I’m slightly less secure than
I otherwise would be and actually I wouldn’t have a problem on to from straps up here normally but anyway that’s not going to help matters but realistically what’s going to limit me up here is these flipping gear ratios I have got Pro gears on here that means my smallest is
4224 which is utterly Bonkers okay I might need to run up let’s see there we go I’m In you know what old school races avoided ridiculously steep climbs that modern Pro races seem to go up like the zonan or the angoo the fact is people did just ride differently back then they just pedal really slowly and you needed serious muscular endurance and I found out it’s my cost
Already this it’s got to get to this top bit here then it flattens off for a [Applause] Minute [Applause] oh I blame the wool Jersey makes me feel like such a chopper every time I pull it on oh my God my arms my triceps my triceps I don’t want to sound like a spoiled modern day cyclist but in no way does dis enhance the soul or the pleasure of bicycle
Riding effectively like golf just ruins a good walk had a good PR of C let’s take the opportunity of having this break shall we to revisit the importance of this noovo record specifically its important place in the cultural history of the derailer can barely said that was straight face
That’s the nerdiest thing I’ve ever said but bear with me okay so again corn Israeli gears the oracle on this this noovo record both invented and perfected the idea of bike components as jewelry okay so something to elevate beyond the functional an object of Desire with like
A a lustrous Beauty his words not mine furthermore Legend has it that Tulio campanola Mr campanola himself actually demanded that the aluminium components be tumbled in Drums of small bamboo balls to give the surface a silky ustra to go beyond just common or garden bling
Chrome now for some of you this is not something to be praised because bikes can be utilitarian functional incredibly practical but for others of Us bikes can be way more than that and the idea of them being beautiful and engineered not only to look great but also feel great
Is something that I can totally get behind now the spirit I think of toio campanell absolutely on in this group set the aluminium is long gone carbon was embraced by campanola a long time ago and whilst these components I don’t think have seen a drum of small bamboo
Balls they are finished and designed with beauty as well as function in mind anyway promised you a stopwatch let’s get on it and see how fast these bikes are my little time trial course today is one that we’ve used several times in the past fast rolling section leading into a
6% gradient climb I am going full old school with this test relying on Decades of experience to be able to Pace two Max efforts to give us something to compare there were of course no parameters in 1969 the Retro bike comes first followed by the modern Condor right beep beep
Beep beep beep there we go oh straight in yes TI the bad boys up here we go I tell you what I’m happy with that beep beep Yoe there some Speedy gear changes now as you can see I haven’t got a wo head unit on here today I haven’t got the right adapters and it seemed like sacrilege to zip tie one onto a bike like this but I almost don’t need the head unit to tell me how fast I’m
Going that you can feel the extra speed and there are so many factors at Play making me faster there the fact that this bike is 2 and a half kilos lighter whil it’s not an aerrow bike there are things that make it way more Arrow these campy Bora Ultra wheels for
Example I mean they even spin more freely I know the fonos and vintage campy will tell me how good those old record hubs are but they’re not in the same league as these and then we we got no wires no cables no exposed Hydraulics the tires are making me
Faster so much of it and you know what it’s kind of ironic really given how much we’re talking about the group set here but that’s probably one of the smallest contributing factors but yeah well it might not be making me all that much faster safe for these rapid gear
Changes it’s the thing that you feel the most when you’re riding the improved ergonomics of the levers for example that you’re hanging on to for 90% of your ride and then every time you change gear of which you can do more of cuz you got more gears to choose
From ah it’s just it’s a joy I want to change G for the sake of it look there we go there we go again amazing okay so what are the results well surprise surprise the modern Condor is faster it covered the route in 12 minutes and 1 second the Retro bike was
41 seconds slower a 6% Improvement then might not sound like much in over 50 years of development but bear in mind that me the hasn’t changed and still represent 80% of the total resistance holding me back so to see a 6% Improvement just from changing the bike and also that horrible
Jersey shows that actually the Improvement in technology is significantly more than that so what can we conclude then well clearly this one is faster now it’s not been designed with aerodynamics in mind it’s been designed for riding but even so it knocks the absolute socks
Off this one in terms of how much has changed well from a tech perspective everything everything and also nothing because it’s still a bicycle that you pedal and it’s got Gears but actually from a riding perspective Everything Has Changed I think I’ve used the analogy in
The past where if a bike was like a knife this one would be a blunt pen knife this one would be a chef’s knife now yes you can still cook a gourmet dinner with either of them but this one is so much nicer more responsive and yes it is quicker and what about
That final question that I asked in the introduction about whether or not a modern bike can have the same Soul as a vintage one that is big question might two cents no bike has a soul unless you give it one okay now that might be in the buying process because you
Absolutely love the brand that makes the frame or you really identify with the brand that makes the component but actually I think most of it comes from the shared experiences that you have with it it’s like an archive of Rise that you can draw upon it’s the sense of
Familiarity you feel when you jump in the saddle it’s knowing how it’s going to respond and react to any situation that to my mind is when a bike gets sold and so when we first built up this one remember it was made out of brand new components but it should have been
Dripping with so cuz it was vintage campanola and it was handmade custom steel frame that been put together by a friend of mine and also the wheels and the tires that been hand laced and glued by gcn’s Ace mechanic Pete like every part of it has a story but yet actually
It wasn’t until it had a few Adventures on it that it really developed its soul and so what about this one then well 100% this one is absolutely going to have a soul and someone whoever is lucky enough to get this bike at the end of the day is going to absolutely flipping
Love it now at this point I want to get your thoughts to Big topics get invol the comment section down below I can’t wait to read them and get involved down there myself as well please also give this video a big thumbs up I mean what’s
Not to like we’ve got vintage and modern campanola so please give it a big thumbs up if you’ve enjoyed it otherwise I will see you on the next one
47 Comments
What do you think gives a bike it's own unique character and 'soul'?🚴
This episode makes me regret giving away my first ever road bike. I loved it. 1990 Trek 1420; 3×7 Deore, indexed down tube shifters, Look clipless pedals. I had many memorable adventures on that bike.
Why don't u ever use the old bike first? How many more advantages do you want to give the big companies and their 24-7 tech-gimmick marketing propaganda via the 'GCN' channel? These super cheap Aldi cycling clothes are so psychologically and economically satisfying, when I think of all the suckers out there duped and controlled by the modern cycling industry and their propagandists. #RationalCyclingRevolutionComing [RCRC pronounced 'Arsey Arsey']
The best bike. The one you have 😊
Campagnolo are awesome love my Chorus setups 😊 beautiful 😊 the wheels are also brilliant.. Condor are also excellent I own an Acciaio and it’s so good to ride love it ❤Pete
what grade was that climb?
Really all you need are brifters; dual pivot brakes; and modern, low gearing. I would call that the minimum to ride for sport, especially doing fast training rides.
modern carbon road bikes all look the same, only hybrid bikes have some soul and character as they have some different shapes etc… But then again hybrid bikes are for mature, sophisticated and intelligent people rather than market controlled wannabe suckers.
I was surprised – I thought the differences would have been GREATER than 0:41 seconds – however – the course was short and if you were to compound the effects over a 200-250KM modern Grand Tour stage – you are talking far greater time differentials – there was no comment on the COMFORT level – the compliance of modern bikes has to account for greater endurance with less discomfort – riding in pain is slower
Modern classic vs super road bike please, whos past in flat road
Please more ❤❤❤
Having 2 bikes with vintage Campagnolo, and one with 10yr old Chorus. Agree the new stuff is better to use, but cost 10 times more. The Super Record set from 1983 on my Cinelli Supercorsa cost $650 in 1983. Cinelli frame in 1983 was about $450. Mind you in 1983 my take home pay was about $300 Doubt there is any change from $8000 now without the frame.
I love the way this video was put together. I love both modern and old bikes. I have a fully restored 23 year old Cove mtb that I raced 24 events on in the early 2000s ,fully kitted out in Shimano XTR and the gear shifting is still to this day amazing. I love my occasional rides on it despite it feeling tiny compared to modern "large" bikes.
Happy Christmas Si and the team. Looking forward to loads of new content in 2024
The overall problem with making a bike into a Tesla or an iPhone is the built in obsolescence and sheer disposable nature of the bike. In 50 years for example the nice new bike will either be an artificial reef or landfill. And the old mechanical bike can still be riden. How much longer will the older generation Di2 batteries be available? And these are wired systems
It's a huge disservice to the non pro biking community to have high tech pushed down our throats. And something we wil all come to regret
Re: Gears. You are right there were no steep hills in the past. Also In the past we did not have excuses. One thing we DID have is leg/hip/glute muscles.
I was expecting the results… like comparing the accuracy and functions of the latest intelligent Apple watch VS an old mechanical watch, one relying on hidden electronics while the other relying on finely tuned mechanical gears, springs and ruby axels.
Classic bikes are masterpieces with sophisticated non-aero brazed tube sleeves, with sculptural pieces, elegant frame geometry and non-ultra lightweight mirror polished chrome, alu and brass…. results of centuries of metalwork technics and art… whatever if a bit slower. Meanwhile, modern bikes are seamless carbon-black human-powered vehicles generated by computer algorithms. To me, one have more "soul and personality" than the other.
I don't remember where, but I've seen somewhere a company who make classic'like bikes with modern materials, trying to combine the best of both, to get a modern bike without selling its soul to the seamless Carbon god .
Could be a good improvement for the channel to use some aerial drone shots. The places where you bing us seem very gorgeous!! 😀
I don't know. It looks like you are over geared on the vintage bike, or at least not trained to pound big gears like we did in the day. I have, by the way, wool tights that would compliment your wool jersey, as well as a pair of cleated Duegi shoes that might have helped the comparison. You also skirted the delicate issue of cost. The vintage bike probably cost $1000 or so in its day, the modern probably in the $15-20k range. How does the price compare, adjusted for inflation? Finally, modern bikes are engineered systems and they work together exceptionally well. The down side of that tight integration is that there is no more component mixing that used to keep us that have to pay for our sport going.
Why not just get the right shoes?
The old bike is way easyer to maintain as a new road bike
I still have my CCM Targa from the 70's
Without correct slotted cleats you would have been off the back BITD. So it may have been a little bit closer.
To be honest, I get this kind of content, but you guys should really do a neo-retro comparison. A good 90's CrMo frame, built up with some modernish groupset with proper clipless pedals. I would be very much interested in what difference would that make. Especially cause I am riding a setup like that 😅(Bridgestone RB2 with a Shimano 5700 groupset and Ksyrium wheels)
Unfair comparison, gear ratios and tires (widths included) should have been matched to make them comparable, taking that bike fit was made for each bike individually to make the best out of them. The greatness of new bikes is largely exaggerated for the purpose of marketing, simply because the industry needs to sell 'the new'. Old bikes in many cases can be updated for better performance using some modern parts and then they are not that much worse, if any to the very latest bikes – of course depends some on the use case and rider too, but still.
The best of 69?!! I want to watch that clip!
Steel is real, rim brakes for the win.
On a 35 mile loop with a couple of lumps thrown in I can do 18mph av on my 80s Raleigh and 19+ on my modern bike. Difference is I still feel fresh on the modern bike whereas I’m happy to stop with the vintage bike. Interestingly I get the same time up a 0.5m 9% climb on both bikes
Some really nice editing on this one!
If they were available in 1969 fair comparison would have had a freewheel with some larger rear cogs. Granted I have several bikes including some classics. 42/53 up front but a 13/26 or 27 was probably available. Crash worthiness on steel is better. Components and chains last longer, much more user serviceable, when cared for heirloom quality and last. I love the appearance of the older craftsmanship bike frame. Mine include, Tommaso 12 speed super record mid 1980's), . I do have some older Campagnolo 9/10/ and 11 ergo groups in silver colors on steel frames Bianchi, Ciocc, Torelli and looks great. Just my opinion. Love the beauty of the older frames.
Compared to just about every other engineered product bikes have barely improved. Look at how far the humble phone has come, or cars, or computers, or trains. Obviously there is less to work with, but it just puts into perspective the price hiking of bikes on the basis of 'revolutionary technology'. They added a few cogs, a servo and a battery, and moved the brakes. Carbon fibre is about the only really significant change, and that is a bit overkill on something that doesn't really need that structural weight to strength ratio.
I had a condor in the early 80s with Campi Grupo we used to swap out the rear derailer for a suntour if I remember correctly shifted better I consider the pedal to be the best improvement
My long comment got lost. Anyhow to summarize. Still occasionally ride the late 1970s Campagnolo, gear change in handle bar ends, with the 68 chainring and welded derailleur hanger bracket forward of axle . Now have Cervelo S5 Di2 synchro changed to hub gears with 81 tooth self made single chainring, and titanium Curve with wireless and 78T single chainring. In my mid seventies and ride with mid forties mates up North Head hill (Sydney) and McCarrs. Started off riding big gears due to Powerlifter/bodybuilder and cant shake it.
If the test was done with some big gear training beforehand maybe different opinion may have been had.
Recumbents were banned by the UCI in 1934, since then upwrongs have failed to keep pace
50 years from now that steel bike will still be around, ready to ride while that abomination will be in some landfill.
Retro? you mean vintage right?
Why did they include slow motion shot missing the shifter button when talking about ergonomics 😂
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Some of us have been riding since the days of 6sp gearsets. Yes, the gears were bigger, but everyone was in the same boat, so it didn't matter as much.
I thought I was in heaven when I got a freewheel with a 24t big cog!
I've been on Campagnolo since the early 1980s. From the last generation Super Record to the most recent gen 11 speed… I have the Campagnolo word mark tattooed on my left forearm. I can't imagine riding anything else because it just works. And if a part eventually wears out, I can replace it relatively easily. I still have my custom built Pinarello with 8spd Record (when Record was the top line) and it's just a beautiful ride with the straight block ratios I had when I raced cat 1-2-pro. When I show up with my retro bike on club rides, noobs always comment on how it was possible to ride a 53×41-12×19 on our roads, yet we did and I still ride the same ratios on my carbon bike, but admittedly the 21 gets used now. I think we were just tougher back then because we had to be.
I couldn’t imagine using the vintage bike for "training". I would love to have a bike like that for a scenic spin where the full experience could be savored. Like Si said, no crusher climbs, just rolling, winding terrain.
Si chenneling is inner Doug…. THISSSSS
whoever cut and routed those brake cables on such a beautiful machine wants sacking!!
Couple things: 1. Videos like this is why Si is my favorite presenter (everyone else is a very close second 😉). 2. I totally agree with the idea of a bike having a soul only after you have experiences and adventures with it. Great video!
These are among my favorite GCN episodes. Thank you!
The test was done without the rider getting used to the bike.
Before my Campagnolo was a $5 bike I repaired at work in early 1970s. Rode it everyday to Shell Shipping Gore Bay from Collaroy (from sea level to 2 highest points in Sydney back to sea level). On my way would deviate to pick up 50 pound gym weights for repair or engine heads and strap them to the rear of the bike as the carrier had a large sheet steel (copious lunch) box . Mid way trip going down Roseville bridge would pass the cars at unknown speed but the limit is 80klm/hr. These round trips were about 50-60 kilometers.
One day with very little Shell sponsorship entered a race from Manly to Cronulla which included top competition riders. Couldn't believe I was in front most of the way but the crank cotter pin started to loosen so had to pull into a garage to borrow a hammer, this happened a few time till I saw the bunch go past while hammering. Half a klm to go and both cranks were facing down so I scooted the rest. When reaching the finish line the winners were left standing on the podium when the media rushed over to see the weird situation.
Moral of the story is
1/ Always race with the bike you train on.
2/ Hard (inadvertent) training counts more than equipment.
3/ Consensus at the time was the skinnier the tyre the better and I was riding wide tyres which has now been proven to be faster.
4/ Happy carefree riding makes better results than unhappy regimented training.
.
btw once a happy grinder always a grinder.
Look, put the modern wheels/tires on as the retro and same aggressive position and I'll tell you the results are negligible, I was a CAT 2 cyclist at 20 years old, I'm 35 now, just doing it as an enthusiast these days. I refuse the tubeless/ disc marketing billsh*t, tubulars and rim brakes all day, I ride a rim brake AX Lightness Vial Evo with Zipp 202 tubulars that thing is a f*cking slick cheetah, I've tried these new "aero" hydraulic hogs and they all feel sluggish and unresponsive, I think my 18 years in this validates some kind of a right to an opinion. P.S. S-works is for cat 5 dentists.
I had a px10 peugeot in the 70s but it simplex gears.