Spit! December 20, 2023 | Episode 336

In today’s show Scott and David marvel at the frigid, world-class, mega surf that detonated on Jersey’s shores, reveal the new plans for the Teahupo’o tower, gossip about Carissa’s potential departure from the WSL, and look to competitive climbing to pontificate about how wave pools will influence professional competitive surfing. Plus Dukes and Kooks! Enjoy!

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Yeah guy yeah guy yeah it’s a fraking Merry Christmas y guy type of morning here it’s spit it’s the spit podcast David Le scales and Scott bass here with you talking all things surf all things going on in the world of surf and good morning David good morning Scott I’m

Excited I’m in the Christmas spirit shifting into uh relaxation mode Leisure mode yeah well you might be the hardest working guy in Surf I mean you’re a busy man so you deserve a little bit of a break thank you very much I did gang tape a bunch of podcasts uh for surf

Splendor in the last couple of weeks so that I can just hit the publish button the next two weeks oh good what do we have in what let’s tease the audience here what’s what’s on on in store for us I would love to we’ve got um K Neville

Is being published today so keville obviously important filmmaker um and then Ed Saul from dead Cooks is next week that’s pretty cool that’s interesting do you know Eden at all I do know Eden yeah I’ve met Eden a few times and he’s been at the boardroom he’s

Purchased a booth he’s been at The Boardroom Show a couple of times and uh ran into Eden quite a few times over at Moonlight glassing I think he was doing some boards there and um yeah and stoked on the whole dead Cooks Vibe man he’s incredible and um his board was one of

Or he he shaped one of the boards in the electric acid surfboard test that just wrapped up this past week too so I got some insights from him on that experience working with them uh he kind of got panned by Shawn manners in the whole experience dude everybody got

Panned by Shawn maners that’s a good point yeah he really did oh man well dude what the heck is going on in New Jersey this week Scott holy [ __ ] the bomb Cyclone bomb thing dropped and the waves were um first of all let me just say those W okay those waves are huge

They’re powerful they’re cold they’re mean it’s like you know deep long period swell low tide Beach Break frigid it’s it’s very very difficult to Surf those waves like I don’t think like your average guy that’s on the NorthShore right now that’s like a good Surfer wouldn’t want anything to do with that

Those New Jersey guys are a whole different breed of hardcore like it’s it’s crazy and frankly some of the Outer Banks guys too because it it it gets cold down there as well but I mean when you’re wearing gloves and booties and hoods and five mil suits and the waves

Are just thick mean barreling you know 8 to 12 foot I would say even bigger there were I saw some 15 foot faces easy and late low tide drops on these it’s just you have to be a young person to do this you know what I mean you have to be a committed

Hardcore you know like where’s Dean Randazzo I was like okay we’re GNA see some Dean Randazzo Dean smart he’s like dude I’m in Puerto Rico i s for the water’s warm I know it I you can’t overstate all of what you just stated it’s gnarly and the wind too there’s

Tons of wind blowing up the face so I can’t imagine tons of duck diving first of all to even get into position and then to get into a wave and your body to be functional at that point with all of that rubber in the cold is crazy and to

Be perfectly honest I didn’t see a bunch of guys making a bunch of waves I saw a lot of people uh getting pitched and free falling and stuff and guys did there were a few good rides but it wasn’t they were few and far between yeah you’re packing a lot of

Cloth outs you’re working really hard and um you know it’s a labor of love I’ve you know when I was much younger I I get it you know like I was sort of in into that you know like that early morning cold offshore go find the bombs

At Baja Malibu thing you know this was a long time ago way before jet skis or Toes or whatever but um yeah you it’s just what those guys experienced a couple days ago is uh Next Level yeah it’s pretty incredible um what transpired it looks like and people are

Saying it might be some of the biggest perfect that we’ve ever seen in New Jersey what transpired to make that happen well frankly I I can’t speak expertly to how it all came about um I do know that the National Weather Service and sort of the national media

Was focused on this this bomb Cyclone is what they’re calling it that sort of you know I think what you have is you have a deep low pressure and a deep high pressure sort of rubbing together like a cheese on a grater and it just um it

Sets up up a ton of Fetch and a ton of of swell and man did it pour through into that area well I’m always focused obviously or interested in uh the surf but he turned on the news yesterday and it has detrimental effects on land as

For as perfect as the surf was there was tons of flooding and um Havoc you know people actually dying from trees falling down and stuff like that so pretty uh pretty scary stuff on land yeah well no doubt and um it you know looking at ways like that makes the surf

Here seem kind of idic as far as you know the 61 degree air temperature and the 62 degree water temperature by the way the water is warm like on the buoys there’s a 63 degree reading on the Troy Pines buoy really that’s crazy yeah um well couple of things in surf news this

Week we’ve got a big rumor dropped from stab magazine about Carissa Moore that you and I have kind of predicted for a while now we do have a Tahiti update we do have stabin the- dark finale uh where would you like to begin Scott I’ve got a listener line call about the analogies

Between climbing that we’ve discussed and the surf World um well I think we should start with the latest I think the lead is what’s happening in the Olympics and the latest update with the Olympics um so I received an official document um from the Paris organizing committee Paris 2024 organizing

Committee um that is in regards to the ongoing debate that we have been discussing here and the Fallout on social media and essentially what they said was the French Polynesian government uh Paris 2024 and the hot kisat have studied all the possible scenarios for improving the project over

The last few months and have reached a consensus on an option combining the promise of safety durability and limited environmental impact for the house hosting of Surfing events at chopu ultimately what this document says is that they’re proceeding with the build to build the Tower

Um what we hadn’t stated in the past was that their concern is that the currently existing wood Tower just simply does not meet their regulatory standards um and the locals response to that was it’s worked for 20 years and it will continue to and so you don’t really

Need to build a new tower what they’re ultimately saying is the standards that you guys have creates it’s not up to our standards and from a regulation standpoint this creates a liability for us if something did happen we would be held liable we cannot take that risk we

Have to find a solution so obviously um the initial kind of build was what they were rallying against but now this new document is saying they found a in between solution essentially a consensus has been agreed upon between everybody and they’re going to find a more amiable solution that will have less environmental

Impact yeah so a couple things it looks like they’re going to build on the existing in the same exact existing footprint um they’re going to size down um what they had initially planned on it’ll be smaller than what they had initially planned on and um and it’s

Going to be done with more oversight everyone’s all the players are gonna all the people that have ownership are going to be able to see it there’s going to be transparency as far as the build and every step of the way if you are a stakeholder you will be allowed to

Engage um and really I think what this comes down to is a couple of things one is I think on some level the entire government everyone involved was like we don’t want to not have the Olympics in Tahiti and I think they kind of got in

Front of some of the people that were on the fence or even the ones that were like no way we can’t do this we can’t build this Tower and they said hey man look at the big picture like there’s a ton of economy happening there’s I don’t

Know exactly what they said but it it feels like they all kind of went do you really not want to have the Olympics in Tahiti because this will never happen again and I think they all kind of like looked at each other and went well you

Know I don’t again this is all here’s this is just me making this up but I’m I’m assuming that that’s how they got everyone together that they were like look we can all kind of agree to at least discuss this and in that process they all kind of hugged it out and

Figured it out uh I will say though that there was one group that’s certainly not that’s still on the outs and that is this chopu Association VI oopu Association which um basically hasn’t signed off on this but has said said that we’re not going to go

Beyond what is legally allowed of us in other words code for we’re not going to create some big you know brewhaha um and we have been given the opportunity to monitor the work and we’ll see you know in the knowledge that the municipality of this area and other

Associations are in favor of this agreement we’re going to just kind of agree not to say anything like we’re not voting yes we’re not voting no we’re just kind of not involved now a lot of the other stakeholders David you should probably probably mention who they are because I think they’re important too

You know it’s important to understand that there’s there’s more than just this local chopu uh Association well it was a 4-Hour meeting on December 10th and the people at the meeting were the public consultation I’m sorry the people at the meeting were the president of French Polynesia mot Tha

Brotherson um the Polynesian Minister for Youth and Sport Environmental and residents Association from the West uh T tyu not this not chopu but taiu Municipal Council and the Tahiti surfing Federation and the West taru uh Tourism Committee as well as Architects and Technical and environmental experts from

The Institute genos Des sport de poesia France um so I sense that all of the the people you mentioned were already on board they were like but the one little chopu town Association was with Ma dret and those guys were like this is lame and they raised enough of a stink for

Everyone to kind of go well let’s let them let’s all come together and hug it out and figure it out and they will I spoke with barttin Lynch yesterday and um what I found interesting is that they’re kind of hanging this this bit of Leverage over them which is if we don’t

Do this there will never be another WSL event or any event ever at this location or at least with a judging Tower mhm and so it’s kind of like H are they like it feels like almost a little blackmail is like if you don’t agree with us doing

This for the Olympics it’s out we’re never doing chopo events again we’re not allowing it because as you mentioned they’re kind of saying liability you know it’s an insurance issue and it probably is by the way I’m not saying it isn’t but but it also is kind of a

Convenient way to go you sure you don’t want to ever have another event here because that’s where we’re going that’s that’s why you need somebody appointed leader at the WSL a Visionary leader at the WSL who can Implement Creative Solutions to this because my response to

That would be like turns out we don’t need a judging Tower we can run all of the judging remotely so you lose your Ace card you know and I also think that the ace card might not have too much weight behind it in other words agree

Could not have the Choo event for the Olympics and next August they’re just having the Choo event because the the local Choo people are like yeah just go set up on the Old Tower no big deal and they run it and nobody even raises a stink yeah well the new officially the

New judges Tower project involves a a reduction to the surface area of the new tower by about 50 m um lightening the tower so now it’s going to be nine tons compared to the 14 tons which was originally planned reduction of the number of people in equipment on the tower reduction of the

Depth of drilling adoption of temporary solutions for the supply of fiber and electrics with the technical sheath dismantled after the games elimination of drinking water and wastewater connections uh reinfor those are big deals those last two things are big deals both the electrical cabling and the the toilets totally that that was

Going to cause a big problem as far as environment totally um and then reinforc site monitoring measures which you already discussed so yeah so these people all got together and said look we’ll give a little bit if you’ll give a little bit and they all kind of gave a

Little bit and again um it does seem like the local Association kind of like everyone kind of went dude you know like you’re the last clog in the wheel here are you going to get on board we’re going to have the Olympics here what about vahini Fier what about kaluas

These people we could make this you know this could be a really proud moment an Olympic gold medal is a big fraking deal man yeah yeah well they’re moving forward with it so here we are look I gotta say I you know as an enduser fan of sport and of Surfing and

Of the Olympics I want them to have the Olympics at chopo I just do and I’m sure you do too and so there’s this you know there’s this sort of gray area where it’s like man the locals are kind of concerned and who are we to tell the

Locals you know what they should or shouldn’t do based on our own sort of selfish desire to have a fun event at choer yeah I I guess the majority of my um concerns from the get-go were more about them using this as a trojan horse

To develop the area at large and so um I do have you know a moderate amount of concern about the environmental impact to the local Reef but I suppose that could be assuaged by saying we there is going to be some impact but it will be minimal and the return on the

Investment will mean that we get all these great events in the future and we are able to continue to have contests there in a you know uh for a long time to come or something like that there’s some kind of negotiation there that I would feel like would be worth a certain

Amount of damage to the reef and even the ecosystem if the payout was great enough but if it’s all a facade and it is a trojan horse to develop the region at large that’s where I have the biggest problem with and nothing about this negotiated version of the tower quells that

Concern oh you’re you you’re you’re kind of taking a wait and see maybe this maybe this thing goes away and before you know it they’re building four-lane roads I mean again I haven’t seen the plans Beyond yeah plans for this Tower you know what I mean and that that was

Also the concern of matah in his videos was why has there been so much secrecy about all of these plans and um so that’s still a concern for me yeah well we’re gonna have to take a wait and see but from my advantage now it seems as if

Where all systems go for the chopu event the Olympics having an event at chopu and um that is the official yeah they gave a timeline of the work I mean there’s a timeline here of you know how the work’s going to proceed and so everyone can

Watch it all unfold you know I’m sure there will be more to be revealed and I’m sure that matah and that local chopu uh and I apologize I know I’m pronouncing it wrong that local community is going to be following it we’re going to see what’s going on with

It and um hopefully it’s smooth hopefully things are smooth and um yeah well somebody who may in fact be competing at Chu that year is won Carissa Moore dude check this out so I was talking to Barton yesterday for the podcast by the way the Border Room

Podcast will be I don’t know we’ll get it live here pretty shortly in a day or two and he told me that sea Thompson and a bunch of the other former world champion Surfers drafted a letter and had them had everyone sign it rabbit Barton Damen Harbin Sean Mark

Richards I’m not sure who else but a bunch of former world champions draft a letter saying basically Kelly Slater needs to be in the Olympics and sent it to I don’t know Fernando or somebody at the ISA which I I thought that was first of all it was new information for me to

Digest I was like wow that’s pretty ballsy and that’s pretty cool I’m kind of stoked on that because I want Kelly Slater in the Olympic Games quite frankly and um anyway that’s sort of I don’t know if that’s breaking news but I found that to be pretty fascinating yeah it is fascinating

Um I mean can they just bend the rules can they just create a new rule to make that happen well you know who I was so I when I was talking there are no official rules I mean this is all kind of territory you know Matt George talked

About it in that I don’t know if you listened but he was basically saying look Michael Jordan was in the Olympics for basketball you know um fraking Ivan or jokovic for tennis you know like Rory Mary for like the best of the best professional athletes in each of their

Sport they’re not like qualified in they’re just like this is the guy we want representing us you know you’re telling me you’re not going to let Michael Jordan be in the in the Olympic Games yeah I I really um I have no qualms about it at all I don’t either

Let’s do this let’s fun of that exactly yeah let’s just have a fun event um so the Charissa Moore rumor that I alluded to was reported on stab magazine I believe Holden trinka maybe is the writer of this article but basically he said quote in the past weeks we’ve spent

On the NorthShore our ears have been filled with Whispers that Carissa Moore will not be surfing in the CT next year the word is that she may compete at Pipeline and sunset since she’s already in Hawaii but will not continue on from there these rumors have been confirmed

By multiple close sources and have left us with quite a few questions at the last two WSL finals uh the number one ranked five-time world champion has relinquished two World titles to lower seated Surfers these this turn of events has likely dimmed her hopes of becoming the quote greatest female serf for in

History based on world title wins a distinction she probably would have claimed before the format underwent changes she would be six to7 with Steph right now if it weren’t for the WSL finals format instead she has just five to Stephanie’s eight end quote so of course this is all in relation to the

Fact that the WSL shifted the event format and the season format in the last couple of years holding a single day final and um surf a single day final surf off for the world championship Carissa Moore went into that finals day with a significant lead and was the number one

Ranked Surfer almost throughout the entire season for both those years and then basically lost her world title on that single day event at lowers two years in a row so what are your thoughts well my thoughts are and this is the next paragraph in that article

Which I think is important is what is more important to your legacy Olympic gold medals and five World titles or zero gold medals and eight World titles and quite frankly that is an easy answer and it is Olympic gold medals are way more powerful than World titles and I’ll

Tell you why because when the entire world is watching NBC Sports they’re not they’re not putting up Stephanie Gilmore they’re putting up Karissa Moore the gold medalist one time who’s going for it again and the entire world will once again uh be you know have Carissa sort

Of in their living room and um the power the marketing power of that is just so much greater than just you know the WSL going here’s eight time World Champ Steph Gilmore but why can’t she have both are you saying that she I mean the article kind of implies that she might

Take this year off quote to focus on the Olympics instead yeah that’s what I’m saying no I think that’s I think that’s a false um presumption to make I mean the argument could be made that being on tour sharpens you for the gold medal more than being off tour uh I’m not

Talking about what sharpens you or dulls you I’m just saying that gold medals are more important than World titles but she could do the argument could be made that why wouldn’t she just be able to do both next year well they’re making the argument that she’s been denied twice at

Lowers and she’s kind of throwing her hands in the air and going this is lame exactly but that doesn’t have to do with a gold medal right but I’m sure she’ll be fine competitively if she yeah if she wins the gold medal then I yeah well yeah the

Gold medal is more powerful she’s got five titles and two gold medals I think that’s way more goatness yeah than eight World titles so taking the year off doesn’t really Sully her Legacy she’ll prob never probably never if in fact she goes through with this I don’t see her

Ever surfing in the WSL World Tour ever again so now I fully yeah I fully agree with you I don’t I’m not even my concern here isn’t at all for Carissa’s Legacy you know what I mean like this more is a punch in the eye to the WSL than it is

To Carissa Moore her Legacy is confirmed already and solidified um absolutely the real problem here is for the WSL not only for their um validity as kind of the regulating body of of the surf world or like the Arbiters of the surf competitive world but for their business

As a whole like this is very problematic for their business as a whole and uh the real question is is it I don’t think one person can jeopardize their business necessarily like if Carissa jump ship she could just be an anomaly and they can kind of figure out

How to recover from that move forward well there’s and there’s a bunch of there’s so many great female story lines too if she is the first of a house of cards right that that is the real problem and the Rumor I mean they’re writing an article now about this rumor

But you and I have been discussing this for the last year or two that the WSL doesn’t really offer a lot of incentive for certain athletes the top athletes to continue to be involved and as their uh format undercuts in fact the most gifted Surfers in the world it gives them even

Less opportunities so when you have people like Kelly Slater’s brand is bigger than the WSL John John Florence earns a living in a lot of other ways that have nothing to do with the WSL certainly I think the world titles validate him in a way and has allowed

Him to build the profile that he has built but he already has those World titles and so now he has Diversified business interests enough to where he certainly doesn’t need the paycheck that he’s earning from the WSL in his contest earnings so if he does if his talents are

Undercut by the structure of the tour and certainly the venues that they run the tour at then at what point do you recognize that you’re spending your best years as an athlete surfing subpar waves not showcasing your talent to its fullest potential yeah no I look as you

Mentioned we’ve been discussing this for a while and I agree with you and um you know if the next card is John John that falls in this house of cards you know we have some major problems so the bigger question is where’s the CEO Who the hell’s making

Decisions over there that’s a great question yeah who is the CEO who’s the CEO moving forward into 2024 we have heard nothing about that no let me ask you this yeah what about a new triple crown that has the very first Sunset event that happens in late October there that’s

Sponsored by the Hawaii tourism board the haliva event which I think is also sponsored by the Hawaii tourism board both WSL events but they’re like Qs 1000s or something and the backdor shootout is the third and now you have a triple crown of course Vans won’t do it because

They they actually own the name Triple Crown of Surfing van so you could call it you know the king and queen of the NorthShore or whatever you could Rebrand it but you would have this Trilogy event everyone would know it’s the triple crown and um I think that that would be

A pretty cool thing and the reason that I come to that place is because it seems like the WSL events which used to have a little bit more juice or a little bit like they were just seemed like they were I don’t know they had more power

They’re sort of dropping off and they’re just level with the back door shootout and the Vans pipe Masters they’re not like I don’t know the word I’m looking for but they’re not well it used I think for a period of time the WSL or the ASP

At the time had the best Surfers in the world you know and so those Surfers competing against each other at pipeline made that the best event in the world but you know an argument could be made that some of the specialists at pipeline uh are better than 25 per 25 of

The males on the CT in that event so really when you’re watching the CT event there’s 10 guys who are very great Surfers at Pipeline and that’s who you want to see but if you watch the back door shootout there’s 30 guys who are great at pipeline and that’s who you

Want to see there yeah I mean I just feel like you’re right you know we and plus okay let’s say we don’t have the greatest Surfers in the world in the first couple years of this new iteration of the Triple Crown eventually there’ll be money behind this thing whoever picks

It up and runs with it and guess what Ethan ying and Gabe Medina and the people that care about their legacy the people that know that being recognized as a Surfer that can handle Hawaiian waves is important and um they will start to just come over and then of

Course the WSL will be like hey man you’re not allowed to do that you’re one of our athletes and right that that ship is sailed anyone can do anything these days well let’s talk a little bit about Karissa um I want to state that if she’s taking this year

Off be for the reasons that we you know because she feels like her efforts are being undercut by The Format at if she doesn’t state that explicitly I feel like that her taking the year off is a little bit in vain and the message doesn’t get across the WSL don’t know I

Would I would like I think the message is loud and clear but she’s doing a doing a good brand she’s kind of covering her brand like you don’t want to be the one that’s like I’m taking off because you guys are lame she’s just like I’m taking off and I don’t need to

Tell you why but everyone knows why well not everybody knows why you know what I mean because yeah but she could say no she could say people could say the WSL could argue oh no she is focusing on the Olympics or maybe she’s going to maybe uh she wants to

Have a kid maybe she wants you know what I mean like they could point at a bunch of different things and she’s an anomaly it doesn’t affect it doesn’t affect our business in any way we can write that off if she put out a clearly stated letter like by the way Gabriel Medina

Did last year after the W after the surf Ranch event calling into question the judging you know um put out a very clear statement saying I love competitive surfing I’ve dedicated my life to it I feel like the format has shifted in a way that undermines my best efforts and and the

Focus of my life and therefore I don’t feel comfortable spending an entire year on tour time away from my family time away from surfing Great Waves uh because it will be undercut again that would make a very very clear statement you’re right you’re right I I

Would I would like to see that and um maybe she’s not stting that because well first of all we’re this whole conversation is based on an assumption but um it seems like there’s some pretty well-placed sources that stab’s using um so let’s just assume that she’s definitely not doing it doing the tour

Yeah go ahead do you want to know when people finally decide to leave a job please fill me in when they have a better paying gig right lined up and so John John Florence as I already stated Kelly Slater would be right after that as far as I’m concerned I think that

There’s certain Surfers who need the WSL Kelly Slater no he do he have a fiscal interest in the WSL succeeding he has a fiscal interest in them succeeding but he doesn’t need the paycheck from the WSL to right but he’s not gonna but my point is Caleb Robson

Needs to be on tour to earn a living Kelly Slater does not that’s my point and there’s other Surfers Beyond [ __ ] like Griffin Kento you know what I mean like he that’s his thing like I guess he could pivot and do a YouTube thing if he wanted to but Ethan Ying Caroline marks

Tyler Wright they’re all invested in the WSL and they need it to survive but John John Lawrence there’s certain people Gabriel Medina he doesn’t need totally transcend it so ultimately I think the question that those Surfers need to ask themselves is I’m in my Prime and will I will be doing the best

Surfing throughout my entire life in these next three years right like I am late 20s early 30s got it all like this next three years I’m going to do the best surfing in my life life so how will I best be able to Showcase that is the

Question and if the answer is that traveling to these predestined locations at a predestined time competing in a jersey that and actually buying for a world Title by the way like if you’re that level where you’re competing for number one and you have sponsors to back you and they’re going to compensate you

To go do that on tour then go get it go get it and try to win the World title but for everybody else that isn’t in that position they can go get barreled around the world somewhere and put it on YouTube and probably H gain their visibility rather than you know

Fledgling in the bottom 20 on tour what is the market right for that though isn’t it isn’t that market flooded like how many Mason ho John John Florence Jamie O’Brien YouTube people can the market with with hold like you know how many Nick von rups how many

Guys are good at it you know Co not Cole Rothman but the other uh goofy foot Smith yeah Co Smith Ro some guys that do good I mean I I think your answer is going to be hey man if they put out good content I’m going to watch it and I

Agree with you but does it sustain them fiscally is that enough of a revenue model there for them you know because I just don’t know how many I I don’t know how it works I there is an equation to figure out how it works and I would

Argue that the market to put on a contest Jersey and try to go be in the top five is flooded as well and there’s only five there’s specifically five spots for that you named more than five who are making a great living traveling and surfing good waves and I mean the

Question is also what do you want to do like it used to be that you had to put the Jersey on even if you wanted to go surf good waves instead no you have to put the Jersey on to make the living I’m saying if you’re not going to be in that

Top five what’s the point and didn’t you really want to just go surfing in the first place there’s a there’s a way to do that now yeah there really is and it’s also a great way to excavate local cultures and put local cultures in the

Front seat and you know in the in the living rooms and in the offices of people around the world that are watching this stuff you know we’ve always the w i remember the ASP even when rabbit took over his whole thing is we’re going to be showing the world all

These great locations and people love that about surfing you know traveling and surfing and all this and we’ll be doing that through these events and really the guys that are have the you know the greatest format to do that are these guys that are doing YouTube clips where they’re like surfing mull Moore

And then they’re at the pub talking about their wipeouts with the guy and they’re you know there’s just the b-roll that you see in the background it’s just it’s way easier to do that and if you look at the number of views on on that video they have more than the WSL

Generates throughout an entire event yeah so you’re accessing more people and so I would just I would encourage anybody or I think it would be wise for the WSL to recognize in a very realistic way uh that they are losing leverage in terms of what they offer to

These athletes and they are not doing themselves any favor by with their format decisions and um the lack of kind of planning that went into that you know and we’ve seen I think we’ve seen at this point the shortcoming of their or the I don’t know the failures of that

Whole concept and it’s wild to me that they have not responded to the cacophony of consensus from their own viewership who thinks it’s a terrible idea let me ask you a simple question is crowning a world champion important yes I would agree I think this is very

Very important in fact um much more important than I think people realize on a bunch of different levels um my next question is do you think that when I look at the WSL I look at it like a graph Paul speaker comes in WSL they take over the

ASP it’s at an alltime high right and then it’s kind of like slowly like you know I don’t know if it it kind of Fades a little bit you know and then Sophie goldi comes in and at some point down there it’s pretty low and then Eric came

In and it kind of got a bump and Eric brought some new energy and people were like okay yeah you know you know WSL Studios blah blah blah and now it’s I would suggest I don’t think it’s at its lowest point but it feels like they need a shot

Of steroids you know that like the whole thing needs it’s kind of like with the Los Angeles Chargers like they fired the head coach and they fired the general manager and the fan base is now like cool man I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen we’ve got we’ve got new

Life there’s new opportunity for our team you know and I just just feel like the fan base is waiting to have that moment where it’s like oh cool they’re doing a reset they’re doing a whole different thing they’re getting rid of the finals at lowers you know or

Whatever you know that’s one of the big ones I think yeah well be curious to see what Carissa Moore does but I she has my full support if she chooses to um take a year off to her and it’s directly related to the reasons that we’re suspecting that it is

Because I think that if the WSL is not going to listen to us their viewers their fans and their listen their viewers uh hopefully they will then listen to their athletes my gut feeling is that um you know like most women her age and frankly men that are married to women

Her age we want to start families you want to start a family I started a family we all start families and um I think that that’s probably you know I have no you know I’m just riffing with you here I I don’t know anything about

It but you know it would make sense that that would be in concert with the the misgivings she has about the way that the tour is structured yeah totally agree well do you need a bathroom break before we do stab in the dark no let’s

Do stab in the dark I like it all right uh stab in the dark finale took place this past week um what are your thoughts Where Do We Begin do we just reveal the winner straight out do we have to give him a spoiler alert no I think we can why don’t you

Tell them who won Ian burn with the bang channeled uh Single Fin yeah yeah and um that looked like a cool board quite frankly I you know um well actually all four of the boards that were in the finals looked kind of fun so the um the ongoing kind of storyline

Here that we had been discussing is that it’s a mismatch Shawn manners uh is not the right Surfer to do this and it was a really a disservice to the board Builders and the surfboards themselves um it seems like in the past versions of this the shaper was the LI was in the

Limelight of all of it and it really feels like they lost focus of that a bit and not providing any context for Shawn manners to understand anything about the boards and why they were built or how they were built didn’t really allow Shawn to tap into some of you know the

The best parts of the designs and then not giving us the viewers and understanding for the brief that they gave the Shapers also made it all very confusing for us and hard to track all of that being said this was episode three the finale and I thought this was

The strongest episode yet if feels like um they spent the first half of the episode in New Zealand and then the second half they go back to Australia and he surfes Lennox head and um some Northern New South Wales spots and the waves are actually better at home than

They were throughout the rest of the series and so I feel like e whether it was just that he had spent a number of times on these boards and it took that long to figure them out or maybe it was just surfing in better waves uh allowed

Those boards to kind of find their group Gro I felt like he did get groovy with them and it it just the surfing was better and it makes the episode more enjoyable yeah I would agree that this was the best of the three um I enjoyed it it did seem like

Sometimes he was crowbar comments in that they told him to say like and in some ways you mentioned that it’s been a disservice to the Shapers and it has been but in it’s also been a disservice to Shawn manners totally like I I just feel like first of all they

Tell you oh actually it was supposed to be Mickey right and we had all the boards made and so we just you’re our backup right and you get the feeling he’s kind of like and I kind of don’t blame him he’s kind of like okay I was

Plan B and so yeah there’s like this plan B energy behind the whole thing like oh I don’t know these boards I don’t even ride boards like this and right I don’t know he uses he says some stuff that’s just like oh I think at one point he says something like these

Boards are novice boards there something did you hear say that no novelty he said this board this board should never be considered anything other than a novelty yeah and I think he used the word novice at one point too but well here’s here’s where another disservice speaking about dead Cooks

Right um the board that he made that Eden Saul made for uh Shawn is a popular Board model that he makes and that other Pro Surfers ride regularly so Sean’s comment about that board specifically was quote I don’t reckon it’s a good board and quote he’s saying this is not a good

Board he he said it slides you know I go to do a turn and it kind of slides out or it doesn’t go on rail that watch Dave rosovich ride that board go to dead Cook’s website and click play on the Dave rosovich video right on the homepage absolutely goes on

Rail absolutely doesn’t slide out like it it’s such a disservice to write off the board and just say I don’t reckon it’s a good board and I’ve held that board when I saw Eden not the exact one but I held that model and checked it out and I was like this

Thing’s neutral like this is as neutral as you could make a board like it would go in anything it would be fast you could put it on rail like I don’t think you could get it to slide out so Sean’s approach was what didn’t translate on

That board but that board is not quote not a good board well we’ve said it before Dave rosovich would be an excellent Surfer for this series did you hold the board here somewhere in Southern California yeah he was in town a couple of weeks ago was it

Was it a 65 like the same size I don’t know why I want to know where it is I want that board they he was bringing them uh they all had homes already they were all purchased oh okay um interestingly so Kobe Hughes was featured in this episode he was in a

Previous episode as well he’s Ryan bur’s nephew MH he’s only made 35 boards he said yeah yeah so it’s kind of an interesting I’m not against this at all but it’s kind of interesting to have somebody who is an absolute novice at board building included in this

Experiment yeah I I was stoked on that too I love that anytime we can give New Blood some energy and some Limelight and some Focus it’s a good thing and um of course Kobe’s incredible Surfer and you know good for him that board looked fun

To me I I you know and yeah you know it just got kind of old when Sean was just kind of like he just even when he was like feigning excitement it just seemed like it was forced like he’s like I better say something good about one of

These boards so here we go this board was fast it took a very long time for him to say something good about any of the boards and I do agree with you it felt like it was what he finally found good like he didn’t he didn’t like that

Board better he’s never going to ride that board again he didn’t like that board better than his normal thrusters he’s not gonna you know now deviate from the path that he was already on so um but but I will say like I said the the way that he got groovy on the Kobe

Hughes and the Ian burn where he was just kind of like trying he was then finding different lines and leaning back doing lay laybacks and stuff like that it did uh it was different than he normally sures and he finally kind of tapped into a little bit of what those

Boards were about um just for the record fourth place went to Kobe Hughes third place went to Neil purches Jr second place went to Josh Kio and first went to Ian Burn yeah as I mentioned all four of those boards were super cool looking and

I would I would love to uh to ride one of those boards in El Salvador for the for the every man in the dark the man on the street surfboard review brought to you by spit and the boardroom and waterways um and waterways of course the

Hugest of huge you know who the star was of stab in the dark this time El um New Zealand yes exactly yeah I mean also it looked cold it was clearly cold and so that um but I mean it’s unbelievably beautiful so we need to get just give

Those four Boards of Dave rosovich altic said it’ll be insane it’ll be a really good episode yeah well they said the final line of their article was that uh they do have a surfer already selected for the next stab in the dark and it’s somebody who does ride unconventional

Boards all the time oh so rosta could be um I don’t know if roster would be interested in doing it I was thinking also Josh Kerr might be yeah Contender for it yeah for sure both of those are great options Michael February could be a contender for it yes super

Good uh torren torren Martin torren would be amazing yeah for sure there’s there’s so many guys I mean even bir Birch would be incredible bir would be insane because I mean I don’t think of him as being very verbose but he certainly understands design and so I

Would think would be able to uh describe it and discuss it in a way better than non well you know most of the enjoyment I get out of those is watching those guys ride the boards like I don’t really need to hear them say oh I love this

Board it was fast you know I kind of I I just like watching them Surf and me kind of getting my own feedback from watching him Surf and I when I saw Sean I just felt like he didn’t want to be there yeah exactly that’s what it was and he

Wasn’t surfing well like not having enjoyable or entertaining surfing to watch is just uh a non-starter yeah I mentioned this listener line call can I play this for you yes what do you have here we been we had been talking a couple of weeks ago about um the comparisons

Between surfing in wave pools versus surfing in the ocean and I and also just like how surfing is so unique but climbing has come up as an analogy of like something that people talk about as being the closest to surfing where you’re in nature and it’s just you versus nature essentially so listener

Chimed in with this hey David um I have uh something I want to elaborate on in reference to the analogies you guys draw between climbing and surfing and um what I wanted to say is in terms of the competition element and governing boards um climbing has an international competition circuit the

Thing to emphasize about this inside of climbing is the way it’s artificial artificiality has changed style in climbing much like wave pool surfing these comp competitions favor gymnastic like movement in service of sort of like viewers excitement the style of climbing and competition in this artificial setting

Has almost nothing to do with what happens when climbing outside in nature I’m generalizing a bit but I’d say this mostly holds true particularly for bouldering it’s not farfetched to see competitive surfing taking the same trajectory the stylistic differences of someone like Felipe leading to a complete Divergence in competitive

Surfing but as in surfing the most respected Feats and climbing still happen in a natural setting specifically first a sense that push the limits of man’s ability even in the context of climbing there’s a huge emphasis on Style in this man vers wild setting unlike the competitive gymnastics of um

Competition climbing in a lot of ways the trajectory of climbing is uh maybe a glimpse into surfing’s future all that said climbing is missing that finite resource element that makes us Surfers all [ __ ] so maybe it’ll play out differently okay um bye yeah well gosh that was well stated

I don’t I don’t know what else to put on top of that he he absolutely nailed it um we both have this man versus nature thing that’s crucial that we all love and that gets lost when you try to implement some sort of subjective uh judging criteria on a in a man-made setting

I think the question that came up in our podcast a couple of weeks ago that spurred that call was um we were questioning whether or not there was any World Tour equivalent for climbing and so apparently there is and I think it actually might be included in

The Olympics as well somebody texted us and said um so it will be interesting to see how wave pool culture then influenc is the greater culture you know what I mean like I think that um obviously the Palm Springs wave uh Surf Club is on front of mind

For us because they’re opening this next month uh and we have a lot we’re that’s two hours basically from us two hours from La two hours from Orange County two hours from San Diego so there’s going to be a ton of people going to surf that

Pool but there also like we saw in Waco there are locals who are surfing and discovering surfing for the first time in these pools and so if the model becomes financially successful and they are building these pools everywhere there could be you know wave pool t uh circuits and

There could be world champions that develop out of that circuit that exist only in that ecosystem and then following kind of what he’s talking about with the climbing analogy is it does some of that gymnastics stuff style of climbing translate it all not only to the ocean but then start to uh influence

The way that surfing is done in the ocean well I mean it’s funny because when you think about aerial surfing some of the I mean aerial surfing started in the ocean I mean you look at the guys on Maui Matt Mio those guys Albi you know even look at Jordy Smith

Was an incredible a list when he was younger and probably still is I feel like the the aerial movement has already occurred it’s not like we’re lacking that and we’re looking to the wave pools to like create this new thing wave pools just you know allow for us to do it a lot

More because it’s just ramp after ramp after ramp repetition and practice in order to do the thing but you know I wonder too this isn’t really dis discussed probably in terms of influence but it might be influencing you negatively like what you need in the ocean is the ability to respond in a

Split second and make fast twitch decisions and if you never have to depend on that in the pool because it’s that consistent you don’t develop that muscle at all and so you might be able to do a backflip off of a section but in the ocean you will never find that

Section yeah I AB absolutely agree and it got me thinking about the guy’s call because I think that and I don’t know I’m not a climber I think that indoor climbing translates better to Nature climbing to you know real climbing I guess you would say or I don’t know how

You would phrase it more so than surfing in a wave poool would translate to going to the ocean I think that’s a really big widespread whereas in climbing I think yeah you’re an insane climber indoors you’re probably a pretty damn good climber because it’s the status situation yeah I guess

Um they both things can coexist in Harmony and they will ultimately I think that’s the direction that we’re going well I got this sense I was you were talk when you were talking about Palm Springs and everybody going there and I was thinking to myself yeah I’m definitely going there and I’m going

There to go surfing to play golf to have an insane dinner at a Steakhouse and just enjoy Palm Springs and then that led me to my mind goes to weird places and I was like of those things which is which am I going to be bored with

First and I just wonder if like surfing a three to four foot wedgie Peak that’s super fun on its face because it doesn’t change a whole lot does it get boring like at some point you’re like ah I already did that you you know what I mean whereas like golf it’s

Constantly challenging you know and the steak we need to eat you know and Palm Springs is beautiful and warm you would you would you would get bored of it if you had unlimited access to it but the reality is at 200 bucks an hour or 150 an hour for the intermediate

Setting you’re only going to book two hours a day probably and only a couple days a year at most so you won’t get tired of it in that amount of time good point good point and I’m excited about yeah I guess they’re booked out and they’re they’re so booked out that

They’re like holding off February they don’t know what to do with February they’re like [ __ ] we got so much response we need to pull everything in and kind of you know reshuffle our cars and see if our cost or price point isn’t right or what but uh good for them man

And I tell you what it does is all the other wave wave pool companies out there I know there’s at least one that’s kind of gearing up there might be two I think there’s Coral Springs and then this other one and I get kind of confused by

It all but anyway they’ve got to be psyched watching uh Palm Spring Surf Club get booked out immediately you know who’s uh it’s a little insider trading info here but you know who’s having their 40th birthday there today at pal spring Surf Club yeah um

Who’s 40 that I know I don’t know who one Jonah Hill oh really yeah that’s cool good for him friends that are going out there to uh partake and participate in that that’s cool yeah so the interesting thing here is the pricing I don’t know if we

Discussed this last week but I feel like they nailed the pricing so the business model of wave pools is the one thing that we haven’t seen have uh guaranteed success yet some of these pools are open but we’re like you know are they financially solvent and

Kelly Slaters at $50,000 a day is very it’s very much for the elites they’ve only sold one other they’ve only Built one other pool in and Saudi Arab yeah where is it is it Saudi Arabia or is it ABAB Abu Dhabi yeah I forget what country it is I don’t even

Know the difference to be honest well they’re different countries oh my God holy [ __ ] so it’s uh again for the elite you know but like so that bus model and it’s still not proven like I don’t know if even the lam more Club turns a profit

Uh but at this level I feel like they nailed the pricing where there’s enough frequency of waves to for everybody to get their fill and they put 9 to 12 people in the pool at a time paying the $150 each it’s a number so I don’t know

If that U math obviously that math has to check out for this them they will turn a profit at a certain you know number of years but I feel like pricing it that way allows guys like you and I to be able to do it with a certain level

Of frequency throughout the year and there’s enough of us around within a two-hour drive that they’ll be able to keep that pool full pretty much 365 days a year I think so especially as word gets out about it people come back from their trips yeah and they go oh my God

It was insane you got to do it you know that’s kind of what happened with Kelly’s thing like everyone’s like oh yeah got to do that but the the Texas thing it was like they’re two you have to hop on a plane if you’re a surfer if

You’re a pre-existing Surfer you have to get on a plane to go there that creates a barrier of Entry then being able to tap into the all of the populations of everywhere like I said from LA to San Diego plus everybody who does fly into these areas already like these are

Already heavily touristed destinations as is Palm Springs so them being able to have that kind of unlimited um uh resource that they have access to and if it was priced at $500 an hour it would be just too much to really be widely accessible to most middle class

Americans 200 bucks 150 bucks it’s just that sweet spot where it’s like most people middle class Americans can figure out a way how to afford it they won’t be able to do it every paycheck but they will be able to allocate some funds to it if they’re like you said if they’re

Already going to Palm Springs to golf they’re spending a couple hundred bucks on golfing they’re also like that steak dinner you’re talking about that’s a 100 bucks a person so if they can afford to do those things then they can also afford to do the $150 surf

Day yeah I think you’re right the price point seems right on for sure and um it what interests me is what’s going to happen to Waco like will it just dry up you’re right you know like how many people are coming from Southern California going to Texas going to wo

That now don’t need to I bet I mean would you would you say it’s 80% is that a stretch is that too many even if it’s let’s say it’s 60% Californians that are now like don’t need to yeah that’s a big drop off man you got to figure out how to fill that

Market or the other analogy is or the other possibility is that the more of these pools you build the rising tide you know raises all the ships and the more interest there is in wave pools as a whole maybe and there’s the the other thing is I shouldn’t I said that um Palm

Springs is already a tourist destination so is Austin Austin’s already already attracting a ton of Travelers and so to do the two-hour drive over to Waco from Austin is you know a reasonable thing for a lot of people yeah that’s a good point you’re right it is so well but

Exciting to see that I mean the footage that I sent you dm’d you and I was like this particular clip of Palm Springs Surf Club shows is the best version of showcasing the versatility of the pool um I thought that was a really great clip to for you to really see like the

Size of the pool the way it’s refracting the wedges that they could do the versatility of the styles of waves that they can create Point brakes wedges all sorts of stuff which technology did they did they license or they do you know wave locks oh cool Tom lock Tom

Lockfield oh good I’m glad to hear that because I want I want that space to get filled with a bunch of different Li a bunch of different companies I don’t want it to just be one company that owns it you know what I mean I think it’s

Better for all of us if we if we see the different you know options yeah yeah I agree causes everybody to up their game each of those texts yeah exactly all right well look um I do have a heart out here um I apologize do you have a musty

Moment or a Duke and a cook I don’t have a Duke and a c but I do have a moment that I saw on YouTube that you guys should all watch um just they just released it yesterday Tanner gdowski who I mentioned last week also just dropped

A new Surf video uh it’s called Sunburn and it features Bobby martinz Bobby Martinez Chris Ward uh Aton Osborne Dylan Graves yayen nickel Andrew Jacobson but you know I get to see Aon Osborne and Dylan Graves surf fairly regularly I don’t get to see enough Bobby I don’t get to see enough

Chris Ward and this showcases them and they’re freaking ripping still to this day so it’s a 17-minute video sunburn on Tanner gsk’s uh YouTube page very cool well we’ll have to check that out and get psyched get stoked speak stoked dude surfed out I surf five

Days in a row epic I’m like sore you know what I mean is it raining down there right now no it’s sunny it’s raining here today yeah the waves have been good here as well but now we’ve got like three or four days of rain and wind

So get a little break well speaking of like hit and split recommendations that we sometimes do on the show next week like basically kind of Christmas but especially I think the couple days three four days after Christmas that whole run California is going to be in for a solid

Punch of Northwest swell I’m sure we’ll see some some imagery from Mavericks coming in and uh it’s going to be pretty solid here um so buckle up get ready nice holiday gift for California Surfers and for all you California Surfers don’t forget to use your trees wax I mean you

Don’t have to be in California to get it but if you are in California you can get at up Sports and Oceanside the California surf Outlet in Santa Cruz or ocn culture in s anelo or of course trees wax.com no matter where you are in the world it is the only petroleum free

Surf wax that I know of so and a great stocking stuffer get some wax for the surfer in your life and uh care for the planet and care for the one you love at the same time trees wax I love it all right well look David it’s been

Quite a show we’ve said a lot until next week adios and aloha