How Nathan Lyon Mastered The Art Of Bowling Off-Spin | Willow Talk Cricket Podcast

Nathan Lyon has 501 Test wickets in the bag. But how did he get there? Gaz walks us through the art of off-spin, how he bowls what he bowls and why.
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Well Nathan this is a special Willow talk you’ve come in and chatted to us about current topics and worldly topics and other topics with heads before but I want to get into the art of offs spin bowling with you if that’s okay yeah Sho now we haven’t got the the best delivery

Uh the ball to maybe explain it because this would rip your hands apart would it not if you did this on a consistent basis with a new ball but tell us about firstly the craft and how long you reckon it’s taken to get to where you want to with the Crafters off spin

Bowling uh yeah it’s definitely take me a while um I know for me the big massive thing for bowling spin is getting spinning up the back of the ball and trying to get a bit of over spin on it which will give you some drift and drop

And bounce as well which is AR arguably my biggest weapons especially here in Australia so that’s the that’s my little secrets behind it that’s sure when you first took up the out of of spin bowling what did you think it was as opposed to what you think it is now I thought when

I first started back in grade Cricket probably in in young and then in canra it’s probably more about I could potentially b a little bit back then as well and probably raided my batting a little bit more um so I probably thought it was probably more as a containing

Role uh one day Cricket try and limit the runs um similar to what Dave hussy used to do I guess um but then the higher the grades I went and working with Darren Barry early Doors Down South Australia um and markk higs back in um

Act was probably more that is it is an art and it’s a wicket taking um art of bowling I guess so it’s um good fun I enjoy it but it’s been challenging yeah did you ever Bowl medium fast at all fast a run up fast fast not medium um no

Only at home as as a little kid tried tried to do everything so used to open the bowling didn’t d would make me go keep give everyone a go then I’d come on the bowl spin at the end okay so did a bit of everything but landed on spin

Your stock ball can you hold how you hold your stock ball every time hold it up for the camera if you could so there you go so that’s your stock wall yeah and the big big thing big thing for me is actually cocking my wrist back towards me then I’m snapping

Over the top so I’m snapping over that so when I’m spinning up the back of the ball I’m spinning that’s that movement there a lot of a lot of young younger Spinners and um will will spin will go there now it’s just becomes undercutting the ball and the ball just go like that

Do we need a stop for that plane keep going um so but for me it’s more about cocking that wrist and spinning if I’m bowling to a right-hander having the seam going down to like a fine leg position yeah and then go for me I’m Bing outside off stump so usually Alex

Car’s right glove is my line to a right-hander trying to spin the wall back into off the middle when who helped you the most with figuring all of that out with your stockboard this is the one that you’re relying on the most to maybe set up and

Over or just get your Rhythm who who helped you with that or is it something that you just worked out yourself no John Davidson so John Davon or he’s up in Brisbane he was part of the um the Academy days back up there at the uh NCC

And he’s he’s been my main goto since I’ve been about 19 or 20 um so even before Darren Barry and and and with higgsy um dav’s by far the best Bing coach I’ve ever had um he he bowled off breaks for Canada in the um World Cup

Number of years ago now but he he’s been the one guy who I’ve been able to go back to and get a blueprint and I I could call to Grayson old change every every year go out there and just take over for a day or a day and a half just

Ball ball ball ball and make sure that my stock ball is my biggest weapon because I do think a lot of spinners a lot of bowls around the world coming up younger kids and that they don’t concentrate on their best ball enough they try and Bowl every ball which is

Good but you your best ball is going to be the one to be the most effective so he’s like your what Terry Jenner was to warning yeah for instance just that sounding board and you know have you ever felt like especially since you’ve become established in the cricket team

That you need that grease and oil change a lot more like unsure of yourself or once you get to that level you pretty much know how it’ll work well it’s not it’s not uh unsure of myself feel I feel like it’s more okay well how can I get

Better okay let’s let’s let’s go in for a service and let’s let’s see where your stock Ball’s at and then we’re trying to come up with different ways and different different balls or how can I make my stock ball better I still feel like I can still make my stock ball

Better um so I feel like that’s all always he’s always the one I go to even when I was in India I reached out to him gave him a call flick him a message or whatnot so ask what you saying all that stuff so it’s just he he is my sounding

Bard when it comes to more technique um stuff like that so the stock ball just hold the ball up again and for those just listening to this it’s a brand new Cherry so it’s probably gon to rip your fingers to Mo and Alley style if um if

You you bow this consistently but you got a bit of a softer seam can you like sometimes you you throwing this in India for instance it’s the same scenario for you with a new ball see I actually like Bing with a a new ball it it does hurt

Um especially when the seams quite sharp but if you blunt the seam a little bit by just the natural bowling yeah um hard of the ball is usually the better off this is the bow yes it can go further in the crowd but um you get usually get a

Lot more shape on the ball with the brand new one so um and with my grip I’ve got actually a firm grip you can see the pressure on my fingers like just underneath and yep so it is quite strong and quite firm yep good for hedging as well I’d imagine getting through those

Tough branches you haven’t done that for a probably get a garden SC no scary’s Gardens we be coming nice Gary’s Gard don’t worry about that um so the stock Bor just your variation don’t want to give too much away here give a Sider for any batters out there that might be

Facing you but um how many variations of away from that have you got with your grip uh yeah there’s a few uh the couple I can explain easy just on on micophone and on camera is that my stock barall is my got my thumb pointing back at me me

With my a wrist but if I tilt my wrist that way and have the Palm back of my hand facing me the Palm facing that that becomes your decent slider that’s the one the I tend to ball a lot to a left-hander to if they constantly

Leaving me on on my consistent shape and spin that that’s one that can work quite effective here at the scg a couple of times now so uh that’s one but if you wanted to try and flick one you move the ball back to or what I do I move the

Ball back back to and have a closer Gap gap between my thumb and my finger my thumb comes on the ball and I’m pushing out so like just flicking one out the front and that can shape with the white ball can shape in but all hopefully go

Away that’s Jeff that’s Jeff pleasure to see Jeff up personal and witness it how you do it what about one that you want to turn at right angles like give it a massive is it just your stock ball and then just giving it a like letting the

Pitch do the work or yeah it really depends on the surface um the squarer ones you can try and actually just have your palm behind it with the slider and just get it to go on or if you try and rip it with a square square seam that

Can tend to go a little bit further further as well but I’m I’m one for trying to spin the ball as hard as you can very early on in your in your spell because if you can get one to to Rag and spin big then it puts doubt in the but’s

Mine it’s all all about putting a seed of doubt in the batter’s mind that’s where having a keeper like Brad hadam was brilliant because he didn’t shut up behind the stumps and he was always at the batter which was absolutely brilliant so I’m trying to

Get Alex Cary the villain to to come up that’s his new nickname the villain the villain yeah he’s to nice though I love he’s not a villain he is in England he is he is does B the haircuts no but he’s too nice he won’t ever start talking he won’t ever do the

Job I only started that then but it’s just yeah it’s it’s a it’s an interesting part of the game so you talk about hads and and the keepers and py was very good as well it’s just putting that seed out in the BS mine Alex he’s getting there he’s getting there so I

Look forward to his uh maturity in that respect developing over the years what about it just back on the batter do you you feel batters watch all those variations out of your hand can can they see the really good ones frame it uh do it frame by frame and break it down to

Know what’s coming from you or is it too subtle no no well the best batters in the world definitely do it um obviously I bow the Smoothie a lot in the Nets and every time I B a cross seam so it’s the same grip but it’s just I’m just turning

The ball in my hand so it’s not on the seam it’s on on the leather and I’m wrapping my finger under under the cross team to to go under it and he he he’ll just go cross team he’ll just yell it out halfway down yeah well even before I

Bow it so and that’s that’s I bow I’d hate to know him me of Bal the Smithy but my point is the best barers in the world are watching the scam they don’t watch the ball they watch the scam okay that makes sense that does make sense

What international B is the greatest in that regard that you’ve you’ve bow to uh I haven’t really spoken to many many guys about that but um I I leared that about the seam and watching the ball so if you watch the ball you a rough circle

Is pretty big but if you watch the scam it Narrows your focus down and I learned that off um Maha and Kumar sing Cara so okay um those two guys were first in my test career but also bowling to punter in the net as well so I learned that

Many many years ago now but um but AB Diles is probably one guy who could probably pick everything that I was going going to do well that prick can do anything he’s pretty good golf he’s good at just good at everything pretty good would have play the swans here if you

Grow up in Australian probably definitely going to go for West Coast hey uh the pressure of bowling on day five so you you talk about everything that you want to do with the ball um all your plans I don’t know if you you’re big on film about reviewing

And previewing on batters are you big in that regard um you get an idea I find it amazing every time we sit down and we watch we watch the Batters hitting the boundary yeah so I don’t I don’t understand that I’d much rather see him defend because my idea is to get the

Guys defending I’m not not there to team me a cover driver or over my head type thing so my best plan is to get these guys defending so that’s my big biggest plan so you look you look at film with that yeah yeah yeah depends if I haven’t

Played against the guys um but I’ve tend to play against a lot of guys uh for quite consistent I looked at someone like Harry Brooke um but I didn’t really look at Joe root okay leading into the ashes CU I’ve played so much and I understand how Joe’s going to try and

Play me where I’d never seen Harry before so I did look at him um for for a couple of minutes but I’m more about getting the guys defended even a guy like Bubba arm for instance who’s just class personified and hopefully he gets going a little bit here so that the

Australian audience can see him he shaking your head I know you are because you’re you’re the one that’s going to have to try and get him out but do you have a clear definitive plan for a really established player like that yeah yeah and and we say this in our bowling meeting

If we can get these guys defending for long periods of time um it’s not rocket science we’ll we’ll hopefully create a couple chances here and there so that’s that’s the plan day five got to that before so you have all the plans you do all the film you’re feeling good about

Yourself but then you’ve got that little layer of okay you got to win a test match on day five is there a layer of pressure that you still feel at this stage of your career or is it now now I’ve been here and done this I know what

To do no there’s always pressure always pressure and uh the way I look at pressure is is that it is a privilege and you you need that to to go out and try and get better each and every day because if it wasn’t wasn’t any pressure

Or be feel pretty mundane and get over it pretty quickly where but there’s always pressure um bowling on the last day um I’ve always I put a lot of pressure on myself early on my career especially that I was following shame on footsteps and had all Australian public

Saying I need to win the game and all this stuff where and it wasn’t until my dad actually called me up and said look there’s three or four other Bowlers in there if you’re bowling Partnerships you basically ripped it all back down to the basics in the gun you

Can’t bow 45 overs from each end or whatever it is so you’re going to bow in Partnerships if you build pressure from both ends you’ll create chances don’t think you’ve got to win this game at all so um that was probably one of the best

P of iice dad’s give me and and as I still work with it now I still big focus is saying that we go out and bowl bowl together in Partnership how good Dave Warner story you got one for us yeah turn this off um yeah now I’ve got a Davy stories

Like um my first ever time I met David um I was coming off of green keeping so yeah and just had a decent big bash going over Zimbabwe on a strer a tour and um Pete love it was uh he’s my manager now still and he was helping me there

And he goes David was his client at the time and he goes uh I’ve just found out your room with David like I’ve never met David seen him go out and hit hundreds again or 70 against um South Africa whatever he did and the mg20 yeah so

He’s just started to come on the scene he’s a big dog yeah and uh so I sent him a message saying hey mate hey David it’s Nath line here can’t wait to meet you all that he called me yeah yes are you in Brisbane yet said uh yeah yes Dave

Just just landed right can you come straight to the Story Bridge and I need you to drive my range Riv back I was like I’ve got a $20,000 commodor and now you want me to drive a $200,000 rain driver I’ve never met you right okay so

That’s my first ever time I met David which and then i r with him in hang on why did you have to drive his rain driver on the beers and I I just I was training I my first ever austring one of those pubs under the Story Bridge there he was

Tanked he’s got you to be your Uber driver yeah basically he stayed there I just had to go get his car and drive it there cuz he needed to go to training in the morning okay so that’s my first ever D so then i r r with him in Brisbane in

Zimbabwe so that was a learning C but I’ve played a lot of Creek with David one thing about the Australian public or people who don’t know David you probably don’t realize how generous he is yeah he’s probably out there with the most generous person I’ve ever met in what

Way he’s willing to do anything for the team and like bring stuff for gifts or anything like that and looks after the staff and other players extremely well yeah okay yeah interesting he’s going to be missed isn’t he yeah yeah yeah for sure for sure he he’s he’s uh

Transformed the way people open the batting I dare say he started basball before basball even was thought about yeah in a way cuz he’s come out here I know he scored 100 against West Indies out here in a session he’s done one against India at Perth so he’s he’s

Definitely going to be missed hey last one I mean it’s a long way away it feels like but you got a kiwi to her as well enjoy balling over there yeah well I’ve only been there once on a test tour um 2016 was it yeah yeah vog he got 200

After being B on no ball at uh Wellington and so we had two good wins there you’re an encyclopedia pluck that out straight away yeah so two two good wins there um it’s a place where I enjoy playing Cricket provides a different challenge usually the decent wickets to

Bowl on First with the Ry grass but um yeah it’s all good fun how many test wickets will you be on in that first test by then depends how many chances I cor well that’s why I asked how many chances are you going to create

Hopefully a few good luck to EAS it good man thanks m I