From this week’s IN THE POCKET, Chase Daniel and Robert Mays discuss Jared Goff’s potential in winning a Super Bowl with the Lions and the debate over an extension.
#lions #detroitlions #jaredgoff
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Jared G when he got traded to Detroit was left for dead okay he was considered a throwin in that deal with a bloated contract and a lot of people just dismissed him in the immediate aftermath of that and I think that I’m guilty of that to a certain extent I think that
Was kind of the conventional wisdom about it and he has responded by playing some very good football over the last couple years especially within the confines of that offense in your mind can the Lions win the Super Bowl with Jared gof and maybe not this year but moving forward because
At a certain point here there’s going to have to be a decision made about Jared gof and how he fits into the longterm plans of that franchise and I’m wondering how you see him as part of that equation yeah I mean I I yeah I think I
Think that he absolutely can win a Super Bowl with the Detroit Lions like I I think he’s I think he’s got enough to him I think he’s got enough stuff to him I think that they’ve surrounded him with the right offensive scheme now now this this is sort of a tricky question we
Talked about it before it’s like does Ben Johnson stay probably not now what’s he going to do under a new offensive coordinator because him and Ben Johnson have been click in man so I think that’s a huge like factor that we can’t really answer like is Ben Johnson gonna get a
Job probably but if he doesn’t then yeah they can win a Super Bowl but no I I think that within the right scheme and honestly golf’s taking a la team to Super Bowl like I I think that he can do it again and I think that that but
That’s the that’s the to me that’s what’s the fascinating consideration okay the Rams make that move whether fair or unfair in the way that they kind of cast off aside they made that move def cast them off they it was he was done sha McVey was done with Jared gof
But they made that move because in their minds they needed a quarterback who could give them more outside of the structure of what the offense provided yeah and I think even if if you’re encouraged and excited about what that offensive structure has looked like in Detroit it feels like we’re going to
Arrive at a similar conversation because Ben Johnson’s going to get stripped away some of these offensive skill position players are going to get more expensive Aman R Brown is going to be up for a contract extension this offseason Penny Su is going to be up for a contract
Extension this off season Jared gof has been totally reasonable in terms of what he’s cost the Lions if you look at that contract over the last four years it’s essentially been four years 100 million on average 25 million a year for the back play he’s given them with a young
Cheap team and Ben Johnson you can live with that they’ve been really good in those circumstances but if you take away some of the pieces of that it’s harder to succeed because what he needs is he needs everything to be pristine around him and I don’t even
Mean that as a dig at Jared gof when things are great around him he can rip that man but he doesn’t scramble he doesn’t make off schedu plays he is dead last in the amount of value he’s created as a scram ER this year among all NFL
Quarterbacks he’s 30th in the amount of EPA he has created outside of the pocket like he is what he is and so if you chip away at the the house that you can build for him what does he end up looking like and I think that has to be the question
That the Lions ask themselves moving forward I don’t know the answer because I totally understand the Lions Landing in a spot where they say we can win with this guy we we we know what He Is We like his presence in the building we can win with this guy I just wonder how
Dangerous that is when he’s going to be asking for the Daniel Jones contract in six months yeah and I think he’ll get it I I think he’ll get it I and I think honestly this comes down to who is so you’re Beauty’s in the eye of the beholder right and the beholder right
Here is Brad Holmes Brad Holmes loves him some Jared golf so he’s got that going for him and if he can find a creative play color that’ll come in and pretty much just run the exact same scheme as Ben Johnson or maybe they they you know Elevate somebody who’s in the
Building I just think the pieces of Round Golf and the coaching staff from Dan Campbell Mark Brunell I think has done like a really good job that doesn’t get talked about enough and just the the former players that Dan’s brought in and just sort of stuck to his guns their
Clearly very well coached it’s a lot of really impressive detail in what that offense looks like yeah and I think that as long as he’s in a dome for 10 games out of the year then you’re good like you know it’s like it’s like The Best of
Both Worlds you’re in a dome you got Brad Holmes as your GM you know they’re going to pay am man Ross St Brown you know and I I think that they’re headed in the right direction and and I mean they there were so many other chances that they could have drafted or gone
Away from them or said hey but from the second that gof got in that building man Brad Holmes like credit to him he was just like this is our guy like we this wasn’t just some throw in we want Jared G I believe in Jared G and he’s made
He’s made me a Believer because he’s playing pretty damn good ball right now I always am weary of what it looks like for your franchise when you commit yourself to a quarterback who doesn’t rise above his circumstances and you pay that guy and I don’t again I don’t mean that as a
Dig there are certain quarterbacks Kirk Cousins Jared gof I love watching them play When the circumstances are good but you need to build something beautiful around them so what does that look like moving forward I understand the Lions wanting to commit to that and I if they
Do end up giving him that Daniel Jones contract this offseason I understand why they would where you have Jared Goffin is a known commodity he’s giving you what he’s given you you drafted henden hooker is kind of a developmental maybe this could work out if we have to move
Off from Jared gof eventually it’s another dice roll I understand the set of bets that they have made I just think that after this season and if Ben Johnson leaves and if some of these guys starts get a little bit more expensive it’s going to be a really similar
Conversation to the one we had about golf in Los Angeles and except Shawn mcy was still there so do you think that if Ben Johnson gets a job which I’ll I mean it’d be crazy if he’s not because I feel like there’s going to be nine to 10
Openings and he’s e wants one yeah if he wants one right and uh they pay their guys that they do you think that Goff will have as good of a year if they have similar play structure around him if Ben Johnson’s not the guy calling the plays
Do you think he would have and golf will have a good year and do you pay golf that money that Daniel Jones contract I I think I probably would if I were the LI I think I probably would based on what he’s given you based on
It’s it’s a safe bet in that the floor is theoretically sort of high but it’s a risky bet because committing those sorts of resources and not even just the resources it’s the opport opportunity cost it’s the multiple years potentially of your franchise and the young years
And some of the cheap years of these surrounding pieces that you have that you’re spending on Jared gof instead of developing another quarterback so I do think that there is some certainty to it but I also don’t think it comes without risk so I I would do it because based on
Some of the intangible aspects of it what he is in the building what he’s been to the franchise all of those things and just the stabilizing force that he’s been but I definitely think that there’s a lot of risk involved in committing that deal to him moving forward especially when you remove the
Ben Johnson piece from all of this that to me feels like a very important piece it’s just like I sort of maybe it’s just the recency bias of me and of the Lions but like they’re finally good again man and it’s so fun to watch hard to let go
That hard to let go of that it’s so hard to let go and with evaluating quarterback such a crapshoot let’s say they go and draft a quarterback in the first round that doesn’t pan out youve set your franchise back four or five more years and then you go back to free
Agency so I think that’s what a lot of these GM types are doing like they’re going with the safe bet to know that we can win with Jared G and that’s okay that if they don’t play with outside of the scheme like we know what we’re getting and right now you’re getting a
Top 12 or 13 quarterback in the league that’s playing the way he’s been playing like maybe a top 10 and so I think that to me is why I say it’s a safe bet because you just don’t know what you’re getting like you don’t if you if you’re not keeping
Jared golf you’re not going to go and get another veteran free agent right it’s golf or you’re starting over with a rookie and so I just I just don’t like unless he’s like a you’re drafting in the top three a guy that’s a franchise guy I just hate starting all over again
With how far they’ve come and how long they’ve been bad and all this stuff and the Lions have never had a rookie quarterback since Matthew Stafford it’s been like 20 years since so it’s just like all that plays into my mindset on it I get it and I totally understand
Every bit of that argument and I don’t think that they would move off from him this offseason he’s got one year left on his contract it would be about whether you’d extend him or you’d be willing to go into that lame duck year next year I
I’ve been talking about this and kind of trotten it out with people over the last week or so and I almost hesitate to even bring this up but I think it’s a worthwhile question as we consider this do you think it’s harder to build build an elite infrastructure where the 10th best
Quarterback in the league could potentially win you a Super Bowl or do you think it’s harder to find an elite quarterback oh my God it’s harder to find an elite quarterback I think I I think that that’s true too so these teams that are held so many I think
That’s how I feel too and so these teams that say okay we know what this guy can do when we put the right pieces around him let’s make that bet the Miami Dolphins are going to be set to make that exact same bet and have this exact same conversation this offseason about
Tua he’s going to get paid more than Jared gof probably because of how young he is and because of the production but those sorts of bets where you say listen we know that we can be a great offense truly like an elite offense with this guy if we put the right pieces around
Him let’s bet on the pieces I understand making that I understand landing on that conclusion even if I think there’s also dangers in thinking that way yeah it’s a good way to put it really good way I agree golf all the way baby let’s go and listen I’ve said this multiple times
This year Saturday was another example of this I love watching him play in this offense I he is what he is he’s fun he is what he is when I looked up that scramble number and I saw that he had just the fewest scrambles in the NFL
This year told you that of course you know it’s true but when you see it all it’s just like you see it on paper you just and it was I went back and I started watching the Broncos game before we’re gonna have this conversation I was
Like I’m gonna watch the whole game I’m have all these notes and be like okay what what did I learn about Jared Goff in this game I watched three drives and I was like what am I doing I I know exactly what he is and you know exactly what he is and
That comes with drawbacks but it also comes with benefits and I think that that push in the pole is what the lions are going to have to consider as they go about this and I say that I’m pretty confident they’re going to commit to him moving forward this is more of a thought
Exercise than it is a projection about what the lions are going to do yeah Oh
24 Comments
Loopy, relatively slow release and the inability to play fast (pressure up the middle) will keep Goff from winning a superbowl unless he’s willing to play for $10m and has a near perfect team around him. So no ring for Goff.
a new QB could be anything, he could even be Jared Goff!
Robert is making statements off headlines and hand picked stats. I know for a fact that he's not watching the games. I keep hearing that he needs things around him to be perfect to succeed. He doesn't bring up all the injuries to the offensive line the last two years. He doesn't talk about the games when both RB's have been out for multiple games. He doesn't bring up the fact that St. Brown has missed games and Jamo is way behind the curve. He doesn't talk about how bad the defense has been for the last three years. The media said Goff can't win with the contract he has now and he's winning. The media said he can't be good without McVay and he's been better in Detroit. Now they are trying to force feed us that Ben is now the reason Goff is still good. Goff just keeps putting top 5 stats while winning games and has the Lions in place to win their first Division title in over 30 years. Just read an article yesterday that Goff is the best QB in tight window throws. No way am I saying Goff is the best QB in the league but people continue to downplay everything he does because they don't want to believe what their eyes are seeing.
Thanks for the content and discussion. Chase Daniels is on point. I do find it interesting how doubters of Jared Goff's talent play the what if game, rather than the reality game. From 2017 when he became the Rams opening day QB Goff has been remarkably consistent for 7 years. He has stayed healthy and available throughout his career. He's had 2-3 games per season where the opposing defense has stopped him cold, but the NFL season was 16 games and now is 17 games with Goff playing good to great over the remaining schedule of each year. Over these 7 seasons only Patrick Mahomes has won more games as an active NFL QB than Jared Goff. What has that meant for Goff's two franchises? The Rams had not had a winning season in 13 years before 2017 when Goff started to open the campaign. The franchise had not been to the playoffs in 12 years. Did Jared Goff get any credit? Nearly every commentator lauded Sean McVay and made derogatory assessments or backhanded compliments of Goff being the robot getting the calls at the line through the headset. He was viewed as a puppet, and his rookie failures as a very young 21 year old player on a team that had just relocated with the worst offense in the NFL became the narrative of who he was. It was a lazy and false story. From 2017-2020 Goff as the QB won more games (42 regular season wins) in a four year run than any Rams QB in franchise history. He remains the only Rams quarterback to throw for more than 4,000 yards in back to back years, which is shocking. Only Goff and McVay will truly know why the Stafford trade happened, but it has been the best thing for Detroit to ever happen since Bobby Layne was on the team. The Lions, remarkably, are the hottest ticket in the NFL while breaking offensive records at both the league and franchise level in the process. Great credit goes to new leadership by the owner with a great front office of Brad Holmes, Ray Agnew and Chris Spielman. The team hired a young great coach with a vision to match the GM's vision in Dan Campbell. Goff has been their guy from day one, and has rewarded their faith in him and then some. Goff has more passing yards and more completions gaining 20 yards or more than any NFL QB who's played in that span. He is the active QB leader in pass completed since 2017. When a player is at the top of the statistical charts at his position, is the key player on the field to have turned around not one , but two moribund franchises and still gets labels as unsure/mid-level a risk. What is the deal? I will add that he beat Patrick Mahomes both times their teams have faced off. Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay went 18-5-1 against the Detroit Lions until Goff's arrival. His Packers went 1-3 against Goff's Lions teams. Aaron Rodgers only loss to the Rams franchise in the regular season happened when Goff was the QB on the other side. Goff was the number 1 pick in the 2016 draft. He has played against the number 1 overall pick in his career 19 times and has won 15 of those contests. Detroit currently is the 3 ranked offense in the NFL. Goff has already QB'd three teams for two franchises that have been Top 5 NFL offenses for the season since 2017. Over Sean McVay's tenure as offensive coordinator in Washington and as the Rams head coach the only two times he had a Top 5 NFL offense was with Goff as the QB. How is that not an elite level player?
Think you guys are slightly overestimating the impact of BJ on Goff and not realizing DC is a piece of Goff’s success…
This is all the national media and even how some Lions fans think. DC is the glue and he IS an offensive mind, it’s not just Ben Johnson.
Also Chase mentioning a top 3 guy at QB… Hendon didn’t hurt his knee he most likely would have been in that conversation.
1:45 Goff has proven that he’s a better QB than Matt Stafford. Not better than thirteen year veteran Matt Stafford, but better than Stafford was at the same point in his career as Goff.
Compare each QB in his first eight years. Both had great third seasons, followed by bad fourth and fifth years, But Goff has been better – even when you factor in the context of the talent they had around them – Goff has been better.
Goff does not need things to be perfect. Goff is fine outdoors and on the road, he’s just not good without protection. Like Tom Brady, you just need to give him protection. You don’t need elite receivers or RBs, you just need to give him a great OL. Again, like Tom Brady. A team can win with a QB like Tom Brady.
"Jared Goff will get payd less than Tua, because of his age" Jard Goff is 29. Tua is 25. If anything Goff should get paid more, because he just entered his prime.
Chase is pretty smart, but people need to understand, if we lose, it will be because of Goff, we finally have the pieces in place, it might be the wrong qb behind center tho. I think that might be the lions situation. Goff is very stiff at times, the nfl is too advance for that shit, u have to have mobility. Goff Doesn't.
Hendon Hooker is on deck guys!
Patrick Mahomes is a fantastic player and the best qb in my mind.
However, I'd like to bring him up to compare how unfairly the media/fans have been treating Goff.
Anytime the Lions lost, all the blames go on Goff, while the Chiefs lost, it's all about receivers' dropping balls.
Up until week 15(before the Patriots game), the Chiefs lead the league the most dropped passes(34) but the Lions were not far behind. They were ranked 3rd(31)
The media/fans complain that Mahomes doesn't have receivers to throw to after Tyreek left and treat their receivers like nobody.
As matter of fact, the Chiefs have one 1st rounder WR(Kandarius Toney), three 2nd rounders(Rashee Rice, Mecole Hardman, Skyy Moore) and two 5th rounders(Marquez, Justin Watson). On top of them, there is "Mr. Kelce"
While they also have been praising Mahomes for making players around him better, anyone can tell me whom Mahome makes better besides Kelce and Tyreek?
With Alex Smith as a qb, Kelce had 2 seasons of +1000 yards and Tyreek had 1 season of +1000 yards. Both of them were young and rising stars even before Mahomes became a starting qb.
Meanwhile, Amon-Ra, Laporta, Kupp, Reynolds, Kalif were true nobody until Goff threw balls to. Even Robert Woods hadn't had +1000 yrd season unitl he got the balls from Goff.
Throughout his career, Goff has never had a top-tier offensive weapon except Todd Gurley. Either Goff makes them better or they have grown together.
T.J. Hockenson and Brandin Cook are great players but I'm not sure if they can be counted as a top-tier like Kelce/Tyreek.
The Lions did not draft Hendon Hooker as a "dice roll"…
Don't do it
You also have to look at the expense of an elite qb thats at least 5 to 10 million more a year thats alot of talent in less skilled positions. 10 million is 5 or more player salaries in less skilled positions salaries. Which is the difference between a superstar qb with no protection and a good qb with time the sit in the pocket and let plays develope
Pretend it's a viable option….
What's Goff's trade value to trade him to the team Ben Johnson goes to IF they need a QB?
Of course he can. It's a game like any other. If the Lions can match up to the opposing team on the OL and the defense can do anything to stop the other team. Of course he can win a SB.
The Lions offense turned around even with Cambell calling the plays. Johnson is a really good coordinator but the Lions will be fine if he does take a HC job.
I'm more worried about cap space lots of our young guys are coming up on contract years, with production giving them the opportunity for big contracts they may have to leave for. And the OL isn't getting any younger. Hopefully Holmes is the genius we're all hoping he is, and can keep the teambfresh without getting us into cap hell.
Great breakdown
He's a true pocket passer plus when the starting offensive line are all out there playing together he really doesn't need to scramble, but there are those times if he did, he'd easily pick up a first down.
That was a fair analysis. I've been a Lions fan for more than 50 years so trust me when I say I would love nothing more than for Goff to be the guy and for the team to finish the build with a SB. But I get called a hater and worse for saying Goff is a mid-tier guy and the smart move, in my estimation, is to let him play out his existing deal and go from there. The points made here are correct. He isn't good when the pocket collapses. He can't make plays with his legs. He also has recognition issues. Kurt Warner did a very good breakdown on this earlier in the year, showing the instances where Goff get's locked on a guy and doesn't spot wide open guys, and he isn't the only one to point that deficiency out.
That said, he has come in and made this his team. He played tentative as hell until two things happened. The team signed Josh Reynolds and Coach Campbell fired Anthony Lynn. Reynolds gave him someone he was familiar with and Lynn and Goff was a bad combo from day one. Ben Johnson was smart enough to include Goff in reframing the offense around what he could do and relying on the offensive line to provide the protection. Once his confidence was restored he started playing with some balls. Discovering St. Brown was the other key. He's Goff's security blanket. But he's still only going to be as good as the team around him and when things go south, he isn't the kind of guy who can get outside of the pocket and improvise. That is why I say he's a mid-tier guy. If he thinks can get top-shelf money, let him test the market.
My fear is Holmes will bid against himself. He's been very good at managing the cap but he does have a tendency to get stubborn about his guys and just like he did with that Martin kid he took in the third round, I'm afraid he might get spooked and think someone will swoop in and offer Goff more money. The team is in desperate need of another edge rusher and getting one in the draft is a long shot. If they want to sign a proven guy like Burns or even trade for a guy like Crosby, it's gonna cost money. St. Brown is due a big deal. Sewell is also due but as a first round pick they have a fifth year with him. And don't forget McNeil, the only decent DT they have. He's gonna have to get paid or he's gone for sure. For all those reasons I say wait another year on Goff. See how he plays, and pay him based on the market, not on some "my guy" BS notion. Windows slam shut fast in the NFL and if you overpay a QB you can be f'd for a very long time.
I don’t know if there’s a quarterback in the league more disrespected than Jared Goff. When he was in Los Angeles, any success he had was because of Sean McVay. And now, any success he is having is because of Ben Johnson, the Oline and skill players. Football is a team game. What quarterback, even Patrick Mahomes, can be successful without a good OC, good offensive line, and good skill players? Goff has had a lot to do with his own success, certainly a higher percentage than most give him credit for. The Lions can win a Super Bowl with him, but to do that Goff needs to take a less than max salary so that the Lions can have enough money left to keep their core intact.
Who would the Lions replace Goff with? They're likely not going to be in position to draft a franchise QB for a few years. Who can they trade for as a replacement? Do they wait and see if Stafford is available in 2025?
The media doesn’t like Goff because they’ve decided he’s boring. Truth is he is efficient as hell and wins. I’ll take the “boring” wins. Go Lions!
"It's easier to get worse at quarterback, than it is to get better." -Brad Holmes
Goff is currently 2nd in Completion and Attempts, 3rd in Yards and Touch Downs, 5th in Yards per Game and 6th in Passer Rating. One of the least appreciated things about Goff is that he stays healthy, is resilient and reliable. He has improved his flexibility in the pocket both in movement and taking sacks. He doesn't get injured when he goes down and protects the ball a lot better. He has always thrown a beautiful spiral and lob or deep throw but he has really improved as a gunslinger in tight coverage. Was he overpaid by the Rams, absolutely. But the Lions have gotten good production and stability with him and is a big part of them contending. As he gets better, the Lions get better and if he continues improving he will retire a Lion and could be the most successful QB in Lions history. Stafford/Goff trade has been a win-win for Rams and Lions – and the story hasn't ended.