Ian Mendes and Mark Lazerus discuss tough times in Buffalo as the Sabres players backed their coach Don Granato after Sabres fans started chanting for the coach to be fired. The Jacques Martin era in Ottawa, version 2.0, failed to get off on the right foot vs Arizona, with their second game coming tonight vs the Colorado Avalanche who were called out for their poor play by defender Devon Toews in the last game vs the Black Hawks. Plus the guys wonder if Chicago could be a fit for free agent Phil Kessel and if injured forward Nolan Patrick will ever play another game in the NHL?
Down Goes Brown joins the show to discuss Dylan Larkin’s tough, fair comments on the NHL and Player Safety and Eric Duhatschek stopped by to talk about Craig Conroy’s plan in Calgary, and 51 year old Jaromir Jagr laces up the skates for his hometown team in Kladno which will once again delay his Hall of Fame induction by another three years.
Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/39tcTMX
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3bAg2x5
Subscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow
All right here we go welcome to a Thursday edition of the athletic hockey show get out of here Haley Max Sean Jan Tilly it’s the real Thursday show the way it was meant to be constructed with Ian mes and Mark Lazarus with you right I think ever
Supposed to be here if I’m here someone’s either busy with real work or something important has happened because I’m just like the guy you call when you need like oh crap we get we go get Lazarus yeah the ebug of podcast that’s that’s what it is but no we’re we’re
Happy to be here because we’re leading into the holiday season there’s a ton to get to on this uh on this Thursday where the news Cycle’s been going and I know last actually earlier this week right you sat in on on the Pod what what whatever and I was in transit because
All of a sudden I had to get myself to Arizona so how how’d that go how how was your uh your day of Pearson oh man I got stuck on the way there and back uh three hours each way on on what should have been nice quick connections uh such
Thing as a nice quick connection to Pearson yeah Pearson is like that’s like my personal hell like I will go out of my way to avoid having to connect through Pearson if I can oh man you know and I think what I’ve learned is that listeners to podcasts they love nothing
More than reporter travel stories they’re like there’s some good ones out there we’re at the anniversary of the time I got stuck at O’Hare overnight trying to get to Arizona and me Chris Cook at the tribute and Tracy Myers of CSN Chicago spent uh we were on three
Different flights all racing each other to get there and Tracy didn’t make it and cook and I had to fly to Tucson and rent a car it was good good times oh man did you guys go full Tom Hanks like in the terminal like overnight like you’re
Stuck in the terminal we made it till about like I think 2 in the morning and then I just screwed up I went and got a hotel oh man no oh no we won’t we won’t turn this into a a travel story but we will turn this into a bit of a time
Travel story because I gotta tell you Laz like being in Arizona and looking at the Ottawa bench and seeing jacqu Maran it was like mind-blowing to me because this is when I first started break I first broke into this industry in the early 2000s um you know I was I actually
Worked in the media relations department under jacqu Martin is that right if you could yeah if you could imagine that’s how far back my relationship goes with him 20ish years and then I I switch into being a reporter and I covered him so to see him behind the bench like I was
Thinking like this would almost be like and we’ll have a nice segue to this in a few minutes but like this would be like if the Sabers went back at some point they’re like you know what Lindy Ruff is our coach again like that’s really the
Only comparable I could think it it is truly wild to see somebody back there uh but I’m curious in in in your estimation like when you think about whether it’s players athletes or coaches whatever going back for a second term somewhere anywhere can you think of
Something off the top of your head where you’re like that guy came back and it was good or as good as the first time like think of me I always think of Messier to the Rangers like they brought them back everybody and it you know it when Patrick kann’s a Blackhawk again in
Five years to have his last season maybe I don’t know yeah didn’t didn’t Al Arbor do that on Long Island where he retired and then came back and they and and they went they went on that playoff run in 93 wasn’t that his second go around yeah my
Memor is a little fuzzy on that but yeah yeah yeah and then and then Arbor actually came back to coach one ceremonial that’s right that’s right get to what was it 15500 right yeah so he got a third go round I mean this is hockey this is the the this is the this
Is the retread league right this is what we do we don’t come up with new creative ideas we go back to ones that worked 20 years ago look at everyone the Edmonton Oilers have ever hired in any job ever they all played for the 1980s Oilers you
Go back to what you know because that’s what hockey does oh man it’s wild like and I was looking this up too because I saw there’s a great stat that says so jacqu martan coached his first game in the NHL last in 1986 okay and so now it’s a 30 7 years
Span between when he coached his first game and his most recent game which is the longest Span in the history of the NHL now I know like we talked about this Arbor came back but it was like a ceremonial yeah game so that doesn’t really count like that was like a almost
Like a PR stunt but I went back last I looked at the box score of jacqu Martin’s first game as a head coach he coached against Marcel Deon think about that a guy in the NHL this week is coaching and he coached against Marcel Deion and Tiger Williams in his
First game I I remember like like just like a few years ago like the the grandson of like Zachary Taylor the the the president from like the Civil War era of the he Ted like it was only his grandson because he had kids so late in life and everyone lived so long you
Shouldn’t be you shouldn’t there shouldn’t be connections to Marcel Dion in the modern NHL I’m sorry I have concerns about is hiring I mean maybe I’ll be proven wrong and I don’t want to be come across as an aist here but Jack martan hasn’t coached in the NHL in 11
12 years something like that the game changed dramatically in that time can jack marttin a coach who is very defensive minded can he succeed in the modern-day speed oriented skill-based NHL can that translate is this just a stop gap or is he really going to coach
This team the rest of the year I you know I think it stop Gap is the right phrase because I I don’t think he’s in this for the Long Haul I think he’s just alfredson thing are we getting are we just getting to the inevitable uh like
Like Marty San Lou in Montreal you know L he every conversation I’ve ever had with alfredson about what his role is he was always scared off by and this is what coaching has become as you know it becomes a 19 or 20 hour a day job oh
It’s an awful job it’s an awful you know it is it it’s mentally and physically taxing you can’t escape it you have to be back in your office you know if you get in at 5:30 that’s a little late in the morning like you know like how many
Staffs they have the joke who’s putting the coffee on and who like you know so I don’t think he wants that I don’t think he wants to grind but you know what I think is interesting like like when they practiced this week in Arizona Jacques marttin the first practice jacqu didn’t
Even go on the ice and it was alfredson and Les I don’t think he had his Skates on the trip like Jac maren so they’re practicing in Denver as we’re recording this I don’t even know if he’ll be on the ice because I don’t think he brought his Skates on
The trip I don’t think he was thinking oh I’ll take over at some point so it’s interesting but he not Sporting Goods anywhere in the state of Arizona I mean someone could have gotten him skates if he really wanted skates someone could have gotten him skates I think God
Wouldn’t you I’d love I would have loved to have done a feature on hey do you guys mind if I tag along the Dick Sporting Goods says he picks up a pair of skates that’ be amazing he’s trying them on he’s like man these are these
Are not custom fit at all this off the stuff welcome to the rest of our lives oh man so look so the coaching changes happened in Ottawa and I think there’s a great parallel between the Senators and the Buffalo Sabers in so many ways good young core Restless fan base in Buffalo’s case
They deserve a little bit extra uh I think Kudos that fan base because now it’s 12 years since they they made the playoffs and now you’re starting to hear the Rumblings of the fans saying Don Granado’s gota go and you know when he first came in it was hey it’s Donnie
Meatballs and everyone loves him and he’s this upbeat guy here we go and boy I I don’t know the Sabers players are back in their coach like you would expect them to do but is that like we all season La there’s different pressure points right and plac it boiled over in
Edmonton it boiled over in Minnesota it boiled over in St Louis it boiled over in Ottawa is Buffalo the next place that is boil over I think the the biggest problem if you’re Donnie Granado right now is how well it’s working everywhere else Ottawa you know so far excluded is
Everybody’s getting that new coach bump right it’s fixing things you know you’re getting temporary bumps in in in Minnesota and even St Louis and uh you know Edmonton obviously was a perfect example I I think a lot of GMS and ownerships they they think of coaches as relatively disposable they’re like
Running backs they’re like backup goalies they’re just you can kind of shuttle them in and out so unless you have an elite top tier you know John Cooper type coach it’s easy to move on from them when things are going bad and Don Granado is really well-liked by that team everybody
Likes Don Granado he’s one of the he’s one of the nice guys in the league and everybody enjoys playing for him and working with him and being around him but the Sabers are disappointing like you said the S we talked about this on the show last time where you know
Everyone said the sabes the Senators and the Red Wings were all going to make the playoffs and that’s just was never realistic but what’s happening is worse than you know just being mediocre they’re being bad again in a lot of ways and it’s tough because you know Don
Granado is not making a ton of money they can easily swallow that contract for another couple of years by firing him and it feels inevitable it feels unfortunate but it just really feels inevitable that no matter how much the players say we support our coach what are they gonna say this they’re not
Gonna say that um the results aren’t there and this was supposed to be a year that the Sabres took a leap and we’ve been saying that for it feels like Millennia and it’s not happening and if it doesn’t happen when you have a lot of talent now it becomes an issue and the
Coach is usually the first first one to pay for it yeah it’s it’s interesting because I think uh the Sabres have tried everything right they’ve tried different coaches they’ve tried different rosters and they feel like they’re just stuck in the same spot I just have nothing but sympathy for Buffalo fans because they
Just they’ve been um it’s interesting too like in Colorado you wouldn’t think Colorado’s a pressure point where it’s going to build over but I I gotta tell you those comments from uh Devon Taves this week where and it was against Cho right like so you know you it was you lose to
Chicago you have a come to Jesus meeting it never fails it’s man if you lose to Chicago Columbus or San Jose it’s mandatory a it’s a team meeting and then someone’s gonna pop off in the media but Tav says quote I think we got some guys who think they’re playing well and I
Think they’re kidding themselves at this point like I you know what I love there’s nothing I love more Laz than sort of peerto peer comments like this like peer-to-peer accountability and I like that I like if you’re Taves and you feel empowered to say that only certain guys can stand up
And say that but I love that I love what he said this week and good for Tav for being willing to say that on a team full of stars that are way bigger than him right like he’s a good player on a great team but he’s not one of the big guys on
That team there’s four or five Mega stars on that team and he’s out there saying so good for him that said the Avalanche are fine they’re like I I covered those great Chicago teams where they would like manufacture their own drama during the regular season because they get bored they get complacent no
Player wants to admit this but when you’re playing on like a Tuesday night or whatever it was in Chicago in mid late December just before the holiday break you kind of just mail it in sometimes because the Avalanche are in no danger of missing the Playoffs they’re going to Coast they don’t care
What seed they are if they’re the one seed or the seven seed they’re just like those Chicago team teams they can win from anywhere and they know it so it’s really hard to get too amped up for every single game in the regular season and no players is allowed to admit this
They admit it after they retire I remember Patrick Sharp telling me about it saying like oh my God we’re in Carolina on a Wednesday night again what the hell are we doing here and you just kind of go on autopilot and that’s what the Avalanche are doing right now
They’re gonna be fine when the games matter a team that good and when they’re healthy again they’ll be just fine and Taves calls them out and I I pity their next opponent check schedule it’s the Ottawa Senators good luck good luck so the uh the uh the team
Call out versus the new coach bump it’s like the uh the immovable object and the irresistible Force oh man it’s like Bo Jackson against Brian Bosworth Something’s Gotta Give Something’s Gotta Give okay you know who loves 80s uh football references it’s our next guest down goes Brown because you know what this guy’s
Like wait a minute Bo Jackson and Brian Bosworth that’s my that’s right up my alley yeah I’m right there I had the poster the Bosworth poster I had the Bosworth poster and the I had all like I had all of them but was okay was Bosworth the one with like the laser
Like Terminator thing or was that okay yeah I think it was I somebody saying p t as if they’re not still like upstairs in a closet somewhere ready to go I used to have those post you know what didn’t somebody write a a a column for the athletic like
At some point in the last year somebody an amazing on the on the Glory Days of the 80s and 90s those posters yeah like I I don’t know where those went like that is something I don’t understand why this generation doesn’t have them I had the John Starks dunk over the Bulls over
Jordan I think it was cartright maybe yeah that was mine you had like I had guys that I wasn’t even like a fan of but you would just get the poster cuz it was cool or someone gave it to you and you’re like oh I guess I got got a
Michael Jordan poster hanging in my room now what’s this guy all about and then you know he became a fan of him and I guess I mean if if they just maybe if we made turn them into cartoons of like bored animals then people would uh people get into them again right turn
Yeah um yeah I had a Patrick gu poster in my room I grew up at Habs fan and it said uh it was Patrick in cab and the the ROI of in cab was kind of pulled out in yeah because of Patrick gu and it was like the coolest thing but you’re right
Like I don’t know what happened like I I had my equivalent of that was wend Clark and it was Captain Crunch beautiful but but do you remember even there was like a time where like teams would like have a an entire team photo like we’re gonna go with Western
Motif dressed up I had that one too I think I that one was framed I dude I it was Fant Back Then There Were teams would do uh they would do these themed photo shoots the Leafs did it you know in the pat Burns era years in a row Doug
Gilmore like looking cool with the leather jacket on the motorcycle and everything and occasionally if you were really lucky and and you know LBI being a Chicago guy now you know all about this they’d all get together and they’d shoot a music video oh yeah where they
Would either lips sync or sing I I Still Play Let’s Go Mets go from the 86 season just to annoy my kids like at least once a week and it was Neil sheii was the guy who brought that to the with the Flames first and then over to when he when they
Sent him to Washington he had like rod langway and like well this is this is what happened young Scott Stevens playing saxophone like what are we doing here these guys are so image conscious now they’re so afraid of looking silly that they don’t do anything fun did you
See the uh the Los Angeles Chargers kicker video that one zicker the kicker and it’s like a it’s like a law firm video trying to get you to vote for him from the Pro Bowl Nobody Does that any it was hilarious it was great it showed personality and nobody wants to do that
Anymore because God forbid you make yourself look silly and that’s the problem because the these things looked ridiculous back in the days they looked I mean you you watch them now and you’re like part of you was like okay does this just look bad because it’s 30 years
Later and then no like at even at the time you’d be watching I try to picture the makeup sessions for some of those photo shoots you know or like the the choreography where they’re like okay we’re all going to tilt our saxophone like none of you are playing you don’t
Even have the thing near your mouth but we’re all going to tilt now when they do that they do it ironically like back then it was kind of ironic CU every time I you know when I bring this up someone’s always like remember the Avalanche did that like Imagine Dragons
Oh God that they were trying to like you know make staring hard into the bathroom sink yeah because it was fun because you could guess like okay who on the roster is going to be a little too into this who on the roster is going to completely
No sell it right and like who’s going to be in between like there’s always like a couple of guys like the backup goalie would be like way too into singing and you’re like dude you all have the same voice like you’re clearly not singing we know what’s happening here but
SE have you seen the uh the team Sweden video for uh I think it was for the Sochi Olympics they did they had this it’s it’s basically like the uh the Swedish mle crew I think they’re called the poodles and it’s it’s n for Alla for
N which was their goal song and they did the 1980s thing where they brought all the players in to sing the chorus at the end it’s first of all the song rules like it’s a it’s like a legitimately great like 80s style rock song and the video is hilarious because you got like
Henrik lunis and you got like you know all these guys out there you got to go it’s one of my favorite videos okay I’m I’m going to look that up because I I tell you man between the post like look what they did look what they took from
Us think they massacred my today you have no idea do you guys ever see this and and and we’ll get trust me we’ll get on to to to actual F will we not necessarily no not necessarily um do you guys ever see it’s from the 80s the Buffalo Sabers anti-drug song the rap
Song and it’s like Tom baraso andley and and Tom baraso and I’m here to say yeah we can all think of something that rhymed with barasso that worked pretty well for that guy but they they did there was a guy there’s one where at least one where the guy’s
Playing the piano and he’s like a local Buffalo like celebrity comic musician like you know which is a thing back then who ended up don’t Google how things ended up for that guy because it didn’t you know it’s it’s going to diminish the message but yeah the the Buffalo Sabers
Were here to tell you not to do drugs I and I think it was a couple of times I think they did it did it two years in a row so if you’ve ever wanted to see like Dave Ander chuk sit you down for like a
Real like chat about the I think the Simpsons destroyed this with the Timmy ool uh that were sending our love down the well video like I think they killed fun videos they may have but I’ll tell you between the Buffalo Sabers and Saved by the Bell I wasn’t going near any
Drugs for for a long time excited but you were soared I was too excited for the Sabers video is what happened joh was it Johnny Dakota telling you to say nope to dope okay see I told you we we we would uh we would get back on track
All right uh look you love 80s Nostalgia ‘ 90s Nostalgia all three of us do but I know uh Sean you also love talking about the NHL and the way they handle discipline and Dylan Lin who was the victim of of look it was a tough play
With Matthew Joseph and I understand the debate around it and I totally get it so I and I understand Dylan Lin’s frustration when you’ve had a history of neck and head injuries and all that stuff and he kind of went off on the League this week kind of saying look
It’s it’s hard to feel safe the way that this league hands out discipline should they should they uh Department of player safety Sean take those words from Dylan Lin to heart or do you think they’ll just be like ah whatever we’re just gonna spin that wheel I I mean I I think
At this point this is well trod ground right I I think most of us feel like we would like to see the suspensions be stiffer we would would like to see you know potentially suspensions for for more things we would all love to see the fines actually matter uh as opposed to
The you know the the maximum amount in the CBA which is nothing for these guys and yeah I didn’t like that Dylan Lin play I really didn’t and especially remember he’s got not just a history of this injury he’s got a history with the same player with Matthew Joseph you know
Having had that injury before so I get where he’s coming from the problem is always with this discussion is everybody wants them to be stricter and tougher until it’s their team and then suddenly when it’s their team it’s oh wait a second I mean come on this guy he’s a
Good guy and and this this is the perfect example because you got Dylan lurkin sitting there saying hey you know I have a history of this injuries I got a history with this guy I get you know it’s it’s not a hockey play whatever you
Thought it was a punch a you know a stick whatever it’s not a hockey play to come up high and hit me in the head and you should be responsible for what happens and maybe he didn’t know that another guy was coming in when I was
Going to get you know sandwiched and hit like that but you’re targeting my head in the Run of play and it results in an injury and yeah I you know there should be stiffer discipline great I’m sure every Red Wings fan agrees with him but then five seconds later David Peron
Comes over and blatantly cross checks a guy in the head blatant attempt for injury he does get the big suspension and how many Redwing fans are saying well wait a second you can’t not David Pon right you got Alan Walsh on Twitter oh he’s a good guy he’s never been suspended before
Pick a lane you know it’s got to be one or the other yeah yes Dylan Lin wants to argue and I’m not suggesting Dylan Lin should argue against his own teammate you know stand up and you know we don’t expect him to do that but if you’re a
Wings fan and you’re saying they’ve gotta they’ve gotta Bear Down on player safety and they’ve got to be stricter great David Pan’s a double digit suspension now if we’re going by that criteria so you you got to pick both it can’t just be everybody else and
Especially if it happens to my team make it stricter both but when my team’s on the other side of it well then you know then it’s uh um you know let’s not go overboard let the boys play hockey you know old oldtime hockey and all of that
Nonsense yeah I I want to see this stuff out of the league completely and I want to see the suspensions be bigger but the problem is you’re running into this inertia and Nostalgia of the league I mean look Kevin CS had a great story today on the athletic about you know uh
John tortorella’s comments last month that this the no hit League guy now and and guys don’t know how to get hit and as a result they’re getting injured he’s basically blaming the players for getting hurt in some ways and it was a really nuanced story that Kevin did a
Really good job with but the problem is so many people in the league are like I want more hits I want this is part of the game and it runs counter to the also we need to protect our star players I’m much more concerned with protecting the
Star players than seeing it I like seeing a good clean hit in the league but if I can see fewer head shots and it means I see fewer big hits then I’m okay with that that’s a tradeoff I’m willing to make I want to see Dylan Lin on the
Ice I want to see him play hockey more than I want to see anybody go and take a run at someone more than I want to see guys getting cross checked in the back of the head in the creas just because it’s always been allowed more than I
Want to see David pan retaliate for a hit like that I don’t want to see any of that stuff I want to watch hockey problem is this league doesn’t care the league wants it to be like it was in the 70s well the the league I think the
League is you know and and I’m the last person to defend the league but I’ll I’ll kind of go halfway to that not the league the people in the league I’m saying wants this stuff out of the game but your John Torell don’t I think they’re caught in between because you
Know the this is very similar to the debate over fighting right where we saw you know fighting for years we would argue it back and forth and then it just kind of naturally on its own started to diminish to the point where it’s at at an you
Know very close to an all-time low right now it’s not really part of the game anymore certainly not like it used to be and great that’s better for player safety is but we know too much about concussions and and the injuries and the long-term effects of this stuff so I’m
I’m all on board with with that but at the same time the NHL minus fighting for a lot of fans is a less entertaining League just like the NHL without the big hits is a less entertaining League like when I was growing up with hockey you
Went to a hockey game or you sat down to watch when there were four things you were looking for you wanted to see goals you wanted to see big exciting saves you wanted to see big hits and you wanted to see fights and the fights are almost
Gone and the big hits are almost gone and the big exciting saves were almost gone cuz these goalies are all Giants now and they just you know flop down and let the puck hit him in the chest and the goals have dropped so you know if
I’m the NHL and I’m I’m always the one saying whenever the NHL has to make a decision I’m going guys you’re an entertainment product don’t forget the entertainment for a lot of fan and and absolutely Mark there’s a lot of fans out there like you too who say this
Seeing this stuff takes away my entertainment and obviously no one wants to see guys get hurt but there’s a lot of fans would say you’ve taken away the fighting you take away the hitting there’s not enough there that it’s still still fun and and I guess the last thing I’d say on
That we started with the 80s and 90s Nostalgia go back and watch the hockey in the 80s and 90s you can argue there’s too much of this crap today and I I’ll be right there with you don’t ever say that the league hasn’t greatly diminished this stuff or that the game
Doesn’t have a lot of it whoever you want to give the credit to there is stuff now that we debate for a week whether this was a clean or dirty hit that would was not even noticed in the 1980s or 90s he wouldn’t even have made the highlights but the hit now happens
And we talk about it we argue about it I I saw it today I saw back and forth where somebody was getting mad on Twitter saying it’s it’s so ridiculous to say the league has taken a lot of the dirty crap out go back and watch what it
Was 20 30 years ago and yeah that’s a low bar oh yeah watch watch Billy Smith or Ron hexall in the crease just whacking at guy’s ankles I I’m I’m not I’m not trying to be a wise ass here go watch a rivalry game in 1989 you will
See more violence and dirty hits and fights and everything then you will see an entire week of a full NHL schedule today ition of the players as the evolution of the game though right y it’s it’s it’s a little bit of everything and some of it
Is rural changes and some of it’s how they officiate and obviously not all of it um that’s how it was with fighting right we used to always debate do they need to uh do they need to pass a rule to get rid of fighting do they need a
Rule because that’s the only way it’s ever going to change is if they you know Gary bman has or whoever it is has to make a rule and they never made a rule but it it kind of on its own diminished same thing’s happening with hitting but
I get where from an NHL standpoint hey man that when you watch a a commercial for an NHL game or a video game or anything with the NHL they’re not showing poke checks they’re not showing shot blocking they’re showing big hits and violence and that’s part of the
Selling point of the game and if it all goes away and maybe it should but what are you left with how do you still Market this game I feel like that’s a false equivalency though right because you can eliminate getting crosschecked in the back in the crease and still have
Open Ice hits still have guys getting smeared along the boards in a non-boarding fashion like there’s there’s there’s it’s it’s it’s a sliding scale but there are clear delineations between the kind of stuff that nobody’s nobody’s excited about seeing what happens in the net front that’s not a
Fun exciting play that’s not Jacob destroying a human being I am with you on that but I I do think we that’s what happened to Dylan Lin it was a a seemingly innocuous standard get a thousand times a night cross check to the back of the
Head it just happened to knock him out cold where we thought he had died on the ice yep absolutely but but at the same time what I’ll push back for you is this idea that you know I still love a big open Ice hit do you what if the guy gets
Knocked out what if the guy gets a separated shoulder you know breaks a collarbone on that big hit do we still like it then and we’ve seen right we’ve seen big hits where we’re sitting there going frame by frame okay was this a big clean hit or was this a dirty hit that
Needs to be a 10 game suspension it’s you know it’s very easy to say you know take all this stuff out but I still love the big clean hits John Torell as much as I hate to say it I see where he’s coming from on
This idea that if you take all the other stuff out suddenly these guys maybe aren’t ready for that big open Ice hit yeah it’s like job trouba being six foot eight like when he delivers a clean hit it’s a head shot to most guys right yep
Yeah but Hey listen I remember uh when I worked at Sports Net and we had the N uh you know we were a national broadcaster we had games and so before the season they actually brought all of us to Toronto this would have been around 2012 and they brought Brendan Shanahan in to
Speak with us about this exact topic about what’s a clean play what’s a clean hit what’s a dirty hit how do we do suspensions and you guys remember this Shanahan came in he was like you’re getting 20 games and you’re getting 20 games and we’re gonna curb this thing
What happened that lasted sixs everybody hated it everybody hated it so for for the crowd that says you know if you gave them a 20 game suspension none of this would happen Bren Shanahan tried to do that and there was just too much push back right same thing when when people
Say just call the rule book call the rule book and you got to call 10 power plays a game on each side do it they’ll figure it out we did that in 2005 2006 scoring went up because the entire game was played on the power play and
Everybody hated it you liked it when your team was getting the power play but the rest of the time you’re like this is nonsense let them play hockey so careful what you wish for I guess and you know yes obviously if you if you started doing 20 game suspensions and you stuck
With it for a few years then the message gets through and the behavior changes but you won’t get that you won’t get that far without without people losing their minds because all of us we all Pat ourselves on the back you know I’m I’m so forward thinking with this stuff yeah
Until it’s your team and then and then you fall back on well but that’s not how they call for everyone else so it’s okay when my team does it too well you know what pick a pick a side pick a lane and and most people pick the lane of
Whatever works for my team in a given moment okay as we uh let you go I think and I apologize to our producer Jeff for throwing this last second but I think Jeff says he’s got a picture of Pat’s garage with the Maple Leaves that I think we could possibly
Show here on the way look at this this is old timey posters of the 90s the Toronto map believe so what years this Sean 93 this I believe is uh 93 or maybe 94 what a time to be alive look at this photo that’s
On the uh on on the motorbike there is a song too you can find that on YouTube Glenn Anderson uh the Leafs are the best uh Mike Myers makes a guest appearance it’s uh yeah okay so I this is 94 Pat’s garage is 93 the gangster one here is
This is 94 I want to say what trophies are those hanging uh up there that would be the conference uh champion no not the that’s the uh the division title and the uh Jack Adams geez Pat Burns and Doug Gilmore won won the awards that is the most Toronto
Thing I’ve ever seen in my life yeah that’s other teams are doing it too I’m just you know just having those those trophies there it’s no but when my team does it it’s okay Mark where you’re not paying attention to the whole thing it’s not cool for other teams but when my
Team does it it’s fine exactly all right always great to have you drop by we love the uh the The Nostalgia what what do we have references to to Brian Bosworth and got yeah Bo Jackson I think we in there I don’t know think we had him too yeah
Awesome stuff all right Hey listen happy holidays to you and the family and uh we’ll get you again at some point next week or I think we’re gonna be doing a best of show so we we’ll get you in there for that too all right thanks guys
There he goes down goes Brown Sean McAdoo uh joining us as he uh does on a weekly basis uh here on the athletic hockey show all right we’ve swapped out down goes Brown and brought in Eric dhik from from Calgary Eric we were just chatting
About and I think maybe you saw it too because you were kind of in the in the waiting room what happened to those great posters of the 80s and the 90s I don’t know and then I think part of the problem is that you know the the
World changed around us you you know Mark writes about this all the time when I started covering hockey in 1980 81 we traveled with the team you know we were you know handed boarding cards it was commercial flights no Charters um coats was the travel secretary and you got
Handed a boarding card just like the player beside you and and often you sat beside the player right so how do you develop relationships with players today I don’t know how I developed them in the first 10 years that I covered hockey was I’d be sitting next to Carrie Wilson and
He’d be studying his medical text and we would talk about it and I got to know his family and he got to know mine and and it was it was just it felt more like um like you had relationships with people and I think that the teams
Thought of it that way it was it was was there was a certain the business was small right you know Gary bman came in in 93 and hockey became big business and prior to that there there was something more um you know like individual entrepreneur feel about it and and so so
That kind of stuff happened I mean you know you you talk about Nostalgia okay I can do I’m I’m the king of nostalgia my favorite thing Mark is that Chicago Blackhawks Christmas Carol where froli Nai oh yeah yeah that was a famous one for leag and and and and and that was fun
Too and that was you know what 2012 13 somewhere around there early 2010s yeah yeah so so you know I mean people were have had fun since the the 19 some of that on like on social media yeah like there’s teams that’ll do that but it’s
It’s done like like that one where it’s done kind of ironically where it’s not like you know look how cool we are we’re in Pat’s garage it feels like they really meant it back in the 80s you know yeah well you know I mean look at the
New York the New York Rangers uh the you know the H hockey sack and I I I mean you know that that was just more of of a thing there because it just felt like a like like the NHL 21 teams it just felt clubedit it better in the old days too
But it was it was mostly because I always go back to this how do you write effect L about someone if you don’t know them right so there was always a fine line where where it it helped to know the you know the names of the players
Wives and their kids and their birthdays and you just felt like you were writing about somebody that you knew but but there was you couldn’t cross the line like you know to me you could not have a friendship with a player because there were times when when you would write
Something critical about them and uh you know the next day they’re sitting on the plane beside you reading your story in the newspaper where where you’re letting them have it I mean that has happened that happened 10 times 12 times and it but it always gave you a good
Opportunity to discuss what you did for a living and and and I used to have this argument with Gary Roberts all the time Roberts would say all you guys ever do is criticize and I say no we critically evaluate I said there is a small Nuance difference because critically evaluating
Means when you play well I write that you play well and when you play poorly I say you play poor and that that’s that’s just what the job is and you know he would sit there and digest it and we’d go back and forth but but you know you
Had an opportunity to say those things and I always think about the issues sometimes that you know that reporters have W with players it’s because nobody gets to communicate people are standing there in a scrum and there’s a question there’s an answer there’s a question an
Answer is that it and then away they go and and you know how do you how do you converse with someone how do you let them know a little bit about yourself anyway it’s um it it was different and it was more fun I think then um hockey
Doesn’t seem there doesn’t seem to be a lot of joy in in the sport right now it just seems very clinical to me yeah you know I I always say it’s you want to build with athletes build relationships not friendships right and if you do that
Um you can be accountable to them and and and and all that um you know it’s this actually an easy segue into this we’re talking about spanning the decades or whatever I said this to LZ earlier it’s crazy jacqu martan his first game that he coached in the NHL was against
Marcel Deon yeah uh and Tiger Williams and on Thursday night he’ll be up against kale marar and Nate McKinnon so think about that think of the span of that I want to segue into yir yoger and I always thought this was a cool stat about yogger he’s the only guy to ever
Play against Gila Flur and Conor McDavid so you want to talk about spanning Generations that’s what uh that’s what yger did but he’s back in the news cycle because he he’s kind of back playing in in in in his hometown and this punts his Hall of Fame eligibility again and LZ
And I and I I don’t know where you fall in this Eric because you obviously have a great institutional knowledge of the Hockey Hall of Fame and the voting process at 51 why can’t we make AR M Yager eligible for the Hall of Fame well I mean I don’t disagree with that and
And in the past the Hall of Fame has made exceptions for players um you know and waved the uh you know the the three eligibility rule in in you know Wayne Gretzky’s case uh you know like he was inducted five minutes basically after he retired and and he was the only player
Inducted that year um and eventually they changed that rule and they stopped making exceptions because of the number of players who had unretired Mary Lemieux was one Gila Flur was another and they felt that it was a little bit of embarrassing to have somebody in the
Hall of Fame you know and and still playing so I I think at that point they had made a decision they do it at the um at the direct dor level uh that that they wouldn’t make an exception for anyone I guess my Counterpoint would be like what’s the difference I mean Yar
Yag is a Hall of Fame player and and and I think that when the committee meets when he finally does go three years between his last appearance in a in a organized Game and his eligibility it’ll you know there’ll be 18 eyes around the room because it’s an 18 member selection
Committee and and probably a show of hands and they won’t have to go through the formal process because everyone knows he he’s a Hall of Famer so whether he goes in in the class of like if he hadn’t played this year he would be eligible three years from now in in
2026 U or 2027 or 2029 at some point he does go in um you know Dominic hasik was the same thing like he kept resetting his goal posts uh you know player who hasn’t got in who kept resetting the goal post was Theo flurry because he
Went and played in England I like I just don’t have an issue with it it does it to me it doesn’t matter what year he goes goes in but we were talking about fun I think that in this particular case because he is so unique that I I’d be
Completely on boor with that and by the way if you want I I can actually tell you a yogger story because you know when when you think about when he first started I saw him play an A game A year before he got drafted and that was more complicated then because Czech players
Were you know like CCH Czechoslovakia had just become the Czech Republic and and Slovakia and in 1989 Calgary Flames team that I was covered made a 17-day tour of Czech Republic and Russia and that was after they’d won the Stanley Cup and they were going to Moscow to pick up Sergey
Macarov who was coming to join them as a 33 year old rookie but before that they spent a week in Prague and they played two games against the Czech national team and on the second game the Czech rookie line was was scheduled to play and that was Robert Reichel Bobby Hal
And a guy named Yara Maraga that you know we were starting to hear hints about uh because he was draft eligible the next year so we went out to the Czech training center in pribram um and because we wanted to talk to Robert reel
No one had spoken to him at at his draft and the The Interpreter Yan yand uh introduced us to to Reichel and and George Johnson and I was there my colleague at the the other paper we spent about 10 minutes talking to him but we watched the practice and one of
The things that they did at the practice is those was that the young players had to pick up all the pucks at the end of practice so we’re there with the interpreter and there’s yoger halik and REO bending down and Gathering all of the pucks and carrying them off the ice
And it’s like wow that’s that is old school and then we’re interviewing reel and this tall guy walks by and and it’s the spitting image of Mario and I go is that yoger and he goes it looks The Interpreter goes yeah that’s yogger and I’m thinking this guy is massive and so
In my mind I’m thinking you know like why this guy’s going to go first overall even though you know in those days it wasn’t clear when these young Czech players would be able to come over and then of course you know Quebec had the first pick that year and Pierre P was
Running the team took Owen Nolan I asked him afterwards I said this joer guy he looks he’s huge and why wouldn’t you take him well you know when when are we going to get him well Pittsburg took him and got him right away and you know can
You imagine if Yara miraga had been drafted by that Quebec team that had young Joe sakic Young Matt sundine you know Peter forsberg coming along the line I mean that could have potentially been maybe the greatest team of all time if history had been a little bit different so and that was in
1989 and here we are in 2023 and we’re still talking about Yara Maraga playing I my my first job out of school was covering the Penguins in the spring of 2001 I graduated early and I got a job out in p and that was uh jer’s last year in
He was already in his 11th season in the NHL and I was just starting out and I’m an old man and he’s still playing it’s kind of incredible the Blackhawks opened the season four years ago in Prague and I rented a car and popped over to clad
No and I visited him and I did a story on him and I mean to me this whole Hall of Fame thing is very silly to say what he’s doing is playing organized hockey is a bit of a stretch he is the owner of the team who needs to sell tickets and
God bless him he’s out there three times a day on the ice practicing with his weighted vest and weighted anklets and all that stuff he still got the big huge ass that bounce all the goals off of I mean he’s still a horse out there and
You saw that great play he made that was going around on on Twitter the other day he made that assist but he is a novelty act as much as anything in cadno right now I know it’s the Hockey Hall of Fame and not the NHL Hall of Fame I get that
But he’s 51 he’s never playing in the NHL again let’s just put him in the hall already yeah yeah it would be like keeping Spaceman Lee out of some uh you know baseball institution because he still pitch and slow pitch somewhere whatever so um Eric I want to ask you
One other uh thing here before we let you go and that’s a Calgary Flames and and and you’re in that market you you you can see what’s happening there they might be the most interesting team to monitor in the next six weeks or eight weeks and they got a brand new general
Manager brand new head coach but what’s Craig Conroy up to here what’s gonna happen in Calgary as we get closer to the trade deadline well you know so if you look at Chris Johnson’s trade board uh he had four flames right at the top of it one of them got traded already
That was Nikita zadorov the remaining three are all players that that can help a team that that thinks they can win a Stanley Cup potentially win a Stanley Cup so it’s Elias Lindholm who not that long ago was the center of what we considered the Top Line in hockey when
Johnny gdo was on the one side Matthew kuk on the other you’ve got Chris tanv who the other night blocked 10 shots and is just this unbelievable Warrior who can just you know can just grind out the defensive minutes and and just like one of the bravest players I’ve ever seen
And and Noah hannahan who you know came over to Calgary in the same deal with Lindholm from Carolina who became a much better allaround defenseman than I thought you know when he first arrived I thought there were issues with his hockey sense and I saw a little bit of
Douge Hamilton in him and he’s just really rounded into a a very good NHL defenseman so all are on expiring contracts all are on very attract active contracts none of them make $5 million a year there you know two of them are 485 495 and I think 10 of is four five so
You know we’re approaching the Midway point of the Season you know half the dollars are going to be clicked off by January 6th or 7th and and then they’re they’re available now you know that there’s a difference between being available and making a deal so of the
Three I think the first one probably who will be traded will be lindol um but you have to create a market for him so you hear Colorado of course they want him Colorado’s got a chance to win the Stanley Cup this year Ryan Johansson just flat out is not a number two Center
I don’t think Colorado can win unless they bring in someone that can play in the top six and anchor that second line in the same way that kadre did the year that they won so to me that’s the logical fit and then it’s a question of
You know are they prepared to give up what it takes to get him um you know I think you know here Boston Bruins I think have a clear need for Lind Holm the sense is that they’re just not prepared to pay the price for him and then you know who doesn’t need a
Defenseman when it comes time to you know to to push for the for the playoffs so you know one of those defensemen likely will end up in Toronto probably tanv because you know the manager and Toronto signed tanv originally for Calgary I think the Flames haven’t completely given up on signing either
Tanv or hannahan um I think that Lind Hol has priced him himself out of of their price range and and he will be traded for sure um I think one of the other two will be traded and there’s a possibility that you know whichever one isn’t traded might sign in
Calgary man yeah it’s it’s going to be fascinating with those those guys I the market for lindol should be through the roof uh if and when he’s yeah if and when he’s they’re ready to move him Eric as always great to have you on uh happy
Holidays to you and and and and your family and and hope hopefully we can get to do this again in uh in 2024 with you at some point all right my pleasure there he goes Eric duhachek always great to get him and those are
Just some oh man I would just sit down I would I would sit down and just listen to Eric duic talk about media and Reporting and like kind of the great stories from the 80s right like it’s just i’ I’ve done that at a bar once or
Twice down with hat and let him go it’s just the best yeah absolutely the best all right let’s wrap up this uh this Thursday pod um boy this was a this was a weird story this week involving Nolan Patrick who I mean second overall pick just what 2017 so not that long ago
Second overall pick and there’s the story out Nolan Patrick has retired like okay that’s kind of weird uh but then Global News uh on on Wednesday L said we’ve reached out to the family of Nolan Patrick uh 25-year-old he’s not retiring Elliot fredman reporting that he did reach out
To Nolan Patrick uh Thursday he declined to talk but he did say he is not officially retired so I you know I don’t know what I don’t know if this is like one of those you know Tom Brady did he retire did he not retired deal but you
Just hope that the young man is in a good space because it it has been a tough go for him with concussions and a career that just never got traction but is isn’t it weird that a guy that people would say oh he retired and then actually no hold on he didn’t retire
Well I mean that’s speaking of the the changing media landscape I mean stories come out and you know we don’t know whether they’re true or not half the time until it’s confirmed by someone that you know that we do know or that the player himself comes out and says
Something uh we see that all the time now with uh you know Shi Otani going to Toronto I mean you just you never know what to believe anymore but um I I think I’m assuming that someone just got some wording wrong and hearing talking about somebody I mean it’s it’s entirely
Plausible that Nolan Patrick will never play in the NHL again right given everything he’s dealing with it’s entirely possible he doesn’t play hockey again but he’s only 25 and you know head injuries and concussions uh they’re they’re they’re an odd thing like you don’t know like someday you’re you might
Wake up and feel good again and you might be able to start training again and you know we saw this with Jonathan Tay and long covid where he thought he might be done forever and then he was able to come back and play a couple of seasons and now he’s deciding whether he
Wants to do that again you know you could say Jonathan T is retired but he hasn’t retired and we don’t know what his plans are because he hasn’t told anybody and I think that’s where Nolan Patrick is is these guys especially at 25 years old you don’t want to give up
The Hope right so he could just be mulling his options wondering about his future and someone misheard something I don’t know how the story came about but it’s entirely plausible and I can understand how it can get some traction given his history uh let’s read a couple of emails
I got to read a couple of emails here to wrap up the show as well as uh Ted writes to us good morning from Kingston Ontario now that pakokku is tracking user stats as to which players you have guessed the most I’m interested to hear when you guys play who are your goto
Guesses my top 12 this is from Ted Wendell Clark Paul Korea Doug Gilmore Adam o Chris Gratton uh Jose Theodore Owen Nolan at Belfor mik Keen Dave Ander Lyall odine Kirk Mueller I feel like my list is the tell me you’re old without telling me you’re old list I’m just
Interested what Gen X groups would go with pakokku gen Z if that’s what Julian is or gen Zed I guess as they say in in Canada last uh love the show thanks for keeping me entertained and informed during my work days Ted from Kingston well we
Won’t go through your top 12 but if you play pakokku who’s who’s like a a guy that automatically is is in your list I gave up on PO both Puck doku I was terrible on it that in Immaculate grid I don’t understand it I have a head for
This stuff but like I look at the the grid and like my brain goes blank like I do gour morning I’m I’m better much better with the word games I always get gordal on within four or five tries like that’s and my go-tos are McDavid Lemieux Gretzky jansson to start every single
Time and I’m gold Puck doku I I I I have like a I get panicked and I get into like the sweats and I start feeling like I’m ashamed of myself for being so bad at it and I just I was doing so bad so I
Gave up because it was it was it was it was I was starting to question myself worth playing it really man feel like it’s right up your alley it doesn’t make any sense to me I’m so bad at it yeah I I’m I’m I’m with the the emailer here
Ted from Kingston yeah a couple of those names are guys I I Adam Oats Adam Oats is a good one for like Anaheim and Edmonton like a couple we talking about just guys you guess when you don’t have an answer guys just been on a lot or
Just your popular guesses but like yeah those are the guys that you know like or uh you know Jose Theodore in Minnesota like the guys who were sneak sneakily played somewhere Bret Hull in Arizona is always a good one um guys that only played somewhere Marty brur in St Louis
Every time there Rangers ones I pick Rich Pon and it’s like 0.1% I remember times M and do and I always joke about how was there a guy imagine today in in the age of social media and the defenseman and his name is Rich pylon and imagine the abuse he would take as
This guy that’s why he was a tough guy right he probably had to deal with that stuff growing up so bad it’s like being named like I don’t know like Dick Johnson or something in high school you have to learn to defend yourself I think that’s how rich
Pylon he had to pronounce it Pon for one thing and then he had to beat beat up a lot of guys along the way I think that’s how he got to the NHL oh man you know what my go-to game is in the morning to
Kind of get my brain going uh and this isn’t just a blatant New York Times cross promotion but I’m all about Connections I love connections yeah connections is my game I wake up and I do Wordle gordal and worldle which is guessing a country based on its shape
And then its neighbors that’s how I get my brain going in the morning later in the day get into the New York Times suite and I do letter boxed and I do the crossroad puzzle and I do uh uh spelling be and all that I got to be a little
Sharper for connections oh man can’t do that first thing okay real quick here let me sneak this one in from Zach from Tennessee because it kind of comes up your alley um because he’s it has a Chicago theme to it uh Zach says first time writing into the show longtime
Listener and a fan my question is why aren’t teams calling about Phil kessle he’s got 992 career points still holds the League’s Iron Man streak I don’t see why a team like Chicago y uh doesn’t take a shot with Phil the thrill he’s not that old and so you know he he goes
On to say look I I think Phil kessle deserves to get to a thousand points he might be a nice fit somewhere love the show keep up the great work your show makes my quiet overnight shifts bearable that’s from Zack in Tennessee thanks uh thanks for the note Zack glad we can
Help out making those shifts a little bit more enjoyable so Phil kessle uh why isn’t anybody sign him and would he be a fit in Chicago I mean it’s his name has certainly come up among Chicago fans over the last couple of months because God Connor Bard needs some help
Right he needs people that can play with him what he’s doing with considering the line mates he’s had this year is even all the more remarkable and it’s scary to think what he he’ll be able to do when he has guys that can play with him
He has guys that are third fourth liners that have been playing with him for much of the season and maybe Lucas Reichel will come out of his slump and be that guy but yeah I I’m on board with this I I I talked to Kyle Davidson the
Blackhawks GM just a couple just last week in Seattle and this is my first question for him is why aren’t you getting Conor Bard help and look I don’t know what Phil kessle what he has left in the tank but he would be very cheap he just wants to play skating was never
An issue for him he should be able to keep up right and if you get a and you get you know Everyone likes Phil Kesley you get him a thousand points you get to have a ceremony you get to sell some tickets like there’s no harm he’s he
Wouldn’t be holding anybody back uh that’s a long-term part of the future here the Blackhawks do I do think they’re obligated to get Connor Bard some help I don’t know if Phil kessle really qualifies but considering what they’ve been trotting out with him for much of the season I mean Phil Kev is
Like a third fourth liner Ryan Donado is the guy right now Nick Felino has been really good this year but that’s not what they signed him to be a Topline left wing get him some help and the Blackhawks are not willing to make a trade to do so they’re not willing to
Give a futures for this Phil kessle wouldn’t cost them anything and God knows they’ve got cap space to burn so why not let’s do it give me something to write about I’m bored give me something yeah Phil okay listen kessle being the Iron Man kessle getting a thousand
Points all that we give you plenty uh plenty of stuff to write about all right so thanks for that uh that note from Zach from Tennessee that’s a perfect place for us to end the podcast we want to let people know that uh this week coming up on the weekend Max boltman
Corey prman with the world junior hockey championships around the corner the athletic hockey show Prospect series with Max and Corey new episode will drop on the week again so uh look out for that last listen thanks for for doing this this was a ton of fun uh to spend
The hour with you here always man always happy to be the stop Gap The Jock Mar 10 of the athletic hockey show I love it I love it and we want to say to all of our listeners you know listen merry Christmas happy Hanukkah happy New Year
Uh from from the entire crew here uh at the athletic hockey show happy holidays because uh we we appreciate like those notes that we got from from Zack in Tennessee it’s it’s those types of notes that uh that really you know make us feel good about what we do here and
Keeping you entertained so we want to wish all of you who listen to the athletic hockey show uh a happy and safe holiday season so that does it for the Thursday podcast want to remind you that if you’re just looking for that last minute gift and you’re like oh my God
It’s December 22nd and I haven’t bought that certain something for uh somebody in my life we want to let you know that from now to the end of the year you can gift a one-year subscription to the athletic for $19.99 or a two-year subscription for $39.99 when you visit the athletic.com hockey Show
2 Comments
I’ve missed all the live streams this week. 😢😢😢
The Athletic has a Costacos Brothers poster article? I am combing the archive and not finding anything.