How good was Allen Iverson? Do analytics really “hate” him? What were his strengths and weaknesses as a player? And how much did his “inefficient” volume scoring actually help those 76ers teams?
This episode is part of the the second season of the “Greatest Peaks” series. Season 2 focuses on the legends of NBA offense, examining unique archetypes, controversial players and stylistic spearheads who have influenced the game over the years.
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Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
Stats courtesy:
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
Music
csus (instrumental)
Cody Martin (Confronting the void)
Alter Ego (Lost)
Hair (Fairlight)
#ThinkingBasketball #OffensiveLegends
41 Comments
Looking at spacing before the 3pt revolution is like watching nascar before they’d learned about aerodynamics. WHY ARE THERE SO MANY PEOPLE DOING NOTHING STANDING IN THE PAINT, GTFO OUT OF YOUR SLASHING SCORERS WAY.
would it be inaccurate to say that AI is closer to okc westbrook than that of kyrie with the scoring and playmaking volume?
The difference between the NBA back then and now is so stark- back then you had at least 8 players packing below the 3 point line all the time while modern NBA is spaced wide open. AI would have a field day if he played today.
Kids these days have no idea how desperate AI's defenders were, like everyone, no exceptions
Ray Allen analysis ! He was 1 controversial game away from 2001 Finals vs Lakers. He was also arguably robbed of the 2008 finals MVP in a lot of talks & the 2008 all star MVP in the same year! Can you dive in to that? & how he would have been in todays era with extra volume threes?‼️
2nd best sg of all time behind mike if u say kobe or wade u r a clown
AI is definitely overrated. Ego too big as a player. He had a good 4 year stretch but his legend and impact distorts people from judging him purely by what he did on the court, where he was essentially a volume scorer at bad efficiency and not a winner. If Trae Young had reached the final, he'd be AI.
of course they're saying non-sense..ask any player – would they want to guard ai…the answer is no. it's easy to pull up numbers…it's hard to stay in front of ai, no matter the percentage…they act like this dude couldn't make shots at all…
That “hop step” (it’s not called that btw, it’s a jump stop) is an obvious travel lol. You can’t hold the ball in both hands, JUMP, and then start a new dribble after you land. You have to shoot or pass after a jump stop.
He was the most skilled player ever in the NBA
Once again the #1 NBA YouTube channel delivers!
Name of beat @ 9:10
I need a t Mac one next !
when I saw AI on your video, my first thought was, you need to make a video about Isiah Thomas. We all need it.
In Philly he seemed to provide value off the ball, but you said than in Denver he didn't because he was mostly spotting up. Don't you think that in Philly's system he could fit better with Melo or other ball-dominant stars?
I want an episode exping to people who good VC actually was and how deep and layered his game was during his prime
I was born in 2001 and didn’t really get into the nba until around 2011. if I had been born 10 years earlier, AI would’ve easily been my favorite player ever and the Sixers probably would’ve been my favorite team too. somehow, everything he accomplished at just 6’0 and 165 is still under appreciated
It's hard for me to evaluate AI. His stature is so mythical that removing the myth and seeing just the man seems almost like I hate the man, even though everything points to him being very good. Just not as good as the myth of "the Answer".
AI was just ahead of his time. If I was his coach and/creating a team around him, I'd pair him with 3&D guys. Think about it. The reason Philly was a bad team is because at that time we really didn't have a lot of 3&D players, know why? Because of Shaq. Shaq changed the game so much, but clearly none of you noticed or maybe you forgot, well watch an interview with Richard Jefferson talking about Shaq, he said that Shaq was so dominant that teams had to change their roster just for him, they had to go get more big guys, even untalented bigs, just so they can put more bodies on him and at least lessen the burden on their star forwards and centers. Think about it. Teams usually have 3 or 4 useless centers who are just big and muscular because they need to contain Shaq or at least be there to guard him so that guys like Yao, Alonzo, Duncan, KG won't get into foul trouble and/or lose stamina as the game goes on. That's also one of the reasons Philly had such a bad offensive team. Due to the lack of 3&D players, I mean guys like Robert Horry, Rick Fox, AK47 etc are already taken by the Spurs or Lakers, so Philly usually gets scraps. Plus no free agent would really want to go to Philly, sorry Philly fans, but it's just not a good nightlife or place to raise kids. Anyway. If AI were born by this decade, he likely would be in a system like GSW or Houston, sure he's not a good shooter, but his quickness and shiftiness can get him easier looks nowadays that the lane is so much easier to get into and even if he has the ball so much in his hands, even if they scramble inside the lane he'd have players on standby by the 3.
It's going to be a sort of Houston/James Harden style of gameplay, plus unlike James, at least AI wouldn't give up on you, plus when he was young he rarely gets injured anyway.
That said, he may or may not win a chip, but he gets more chances than back in the 00s
crazy how he always reverts back to his right hand, teams know this but they still can't stop him.
Allen Iverson was the Tony Parkers of Steph Currys. He finished at the rim better than anyone and I'm pretty sure his defenders taped their ankles EXTRA tight on game night. The Caruso style D is something you didn't mention too much of. Allen was not a defensive liability. But thinking back, man, were Eric Snow and Aaron McKee absolutely useless.
Iverson would do great on a team filled with 3 & D players tbh
Just confirms to me that is he overrated, the Westbrook of his era
Tmac, Melo
AI was an all-time great disruptor and competitor—two attributes that most “efficient” players lack.
An efficient player may take what the defense gives him. An all-star efficient player may consistently beat his man and pass out of double teams.
Iverson put constant stress/pressure on the entire defense in ways that few players in history have achieved. He led his team to the finals—something most “efficient” players can’t claim.
This dude literally used an AI to make AI as a thumbnail 😂
7:50 This side to side running off screen action is called the Iverson cut to this day
I'm 6'0 and about 15lbs heavier than A.I. and its so impressive that someone around my size could dominate for so long. Its inspiring af
I know he's an active player, but considering he's out of his prime, could you do a video on prime Russ (2015-2019)? To me he exemplifies what an all-time offensive player can look like without efficient scoring.
Short answer – analytics are definitely, only somewhat, wrong about an NBA great
AI was and will certainly remain one of the most polarizing players ever. You have some people putting him in their top 30 or 20 players of all-time, as one of the greatest without a ring, and other (like me) not putting him in their top 50 (I'm not sure if he's in my top 60).
You covered it well on the basketball standpoint: he was not effective, but he played on a offensively weak Sixers team and "lacked help". He was phenomenally athletic and fearless, always the smallest and lightest on the court but didn't flop or complain to the referees, which is one of his qualities even more appreciated today, now that we have behemoths like Embiid and LeBron flopping and whining all the time. AI had a quick dribble, he jumped deceiptevely high, had a great layup package, but he shot quite poorly from distance.
His fans love to say he was the best "pound for pound" or under 6 feet player, which is certainly true but basketball isn't that kind of sport, sadly. To me, when he was traded with Billups and the Nuggets played better, as he started to fall with the Pistons and subsequently Memphis, it proved he was a "great player on an average team", not really capable of raising the ceiling and adapting, but, as you pointed, absolutely capable of being a one-man offense, just not an efficient one.
He also played in the East in its weakest era, so the 2001 Finals might be his apex, with the iconic stepover over Tyronn Lue and inflicting the Lakers their only loss, but he never made it back.
One point you didn't cover, because it is not the theme of your channel so it's absolutely logical, is his cultural impact. This was another aspect of AI that made him polarizing and made him loved. He was SO ICONIC and SO GENUINE. Contrary to many stars, especially after him, you didn't feel like he was wearing a personna and made statements written by the team. He was purely himself, in the best and the worst.
Iverson was the embodiment of the late 90s-early 2000s, the best hiphop/streetball player, he influenced the League and the world (I never forgot the pictures with Melo and him dressed and braided the same way, iconic). All that from an emotional, average-sized, beautiful, big-eyed and big-hearted man. I absolutely understand why he was and still is one of the favourite players for many, many fans.
But his fans should also recognize his limitations and accept that he was not as great from a record / winning standpoint. It's tough and unfair, I know.
He had to played against zone defense thats why he has bad stats like kobe. Nowadays it s easy to drop 20 points. 2000s was the best era of all time with 4 of the top 10 of all time Kobe, Shaq, Duncan and Lebron and many others players, also the most defensive and harder era. Also, AI humilliated MJ, Kobe and Lebron
I think he would've been better at the PG position.. He's deadly with the ball in his hand so why make him a SG so he has to work to get the ball?? give him the ball and let him go.. the best feeling for the defense is when he don't have the ball.. Larry Brown isn't a good coach if you ask me..
If you like to see what AI can be with Great Teammates just look at Stephen Curry
Iverson needed the 2010 Mavs formula. 4 great defensive players with high shooting and playmaking capacity. Secondary scorer of the bench who could compliment AI's game.
Need a CP3 episode
You ask 'what's the truth?'- it needs to be 'what's the answer?' the truth played for boston.
wonder if you can say the same about kobe Bryant, cause he's a player who tends to take a lot of tough shots too
may ai forever step over ty lue
Just saw you on the wilt chamberlain doc, I Knew these voice from somewhere lol
I always thought AI got a raw deal in the media. He was constantly accused of being selfish, which was patently ridiculous. The offense was set up for him to shoot 30 times a game and he did. The 76ers didn't have anyone else who could score. Aaron McKie would be a serviceable 3rd option on a decent offensive team, but he was the 2nd option on Philly; they needed Iverson to do all the creating and all the scoring because they had literally no one else who could.
From an analytics standpoint AI's individual offense looks inefficient (he's barely over 40% on all FG's for his career) but those Philly teams were good. They made the playoffs every year and got to the finals against the juggernaut Lakers. They weren't really constructed that well (literally no good shooters until Kyle Korver in 2003 and nothing you could reasonably call on-ball creation aside from Iverson) and Larry Brown is, in my opinion, an overrated coach, yet Iverson (and their very good defense) managed to carry them to some decent success.