So from personal experience, the ability to stay connected and have a fluid backswing improves power, consistency and accuracy, regardless of the club path you create as a result
Something I realized experimenting with swing path is that the direction the toe is pointing in the backswing extension influences the swing path to the top.
For example one of the reasons unschooled beginners will swing back low and inside then down over the top and outside-in in their downswing is because they pronate their lead hand in the takeaway which orients the toe of the club backwards before it extends . The ideal swing path bringing club head mass up over the heels is created by having the toe facing forward (towards swing line) at extension /. If that toe position at extension is exaggerated to the point of being horizontal — the result is a very high backswing arc.
This cause and effect can be seen empirically by swinging a club with just the lead arm and changing the toe angle with wrist action. You will notice the path the club head mass swings up after it is pulled horizontal by momentum is affected by the toe angle. Understanding this cause and effect can be used to create different club paths for different shaped shots: toe back and low path like Hogan’s for hitting draws; toe forward and high path like Nicklaus when wanting to hit fades and in-between when wanting to hit straight.
The way the toe orientation affects path is also felt when comparing MB blade to CB “Players” and “Forgiving / Game Improvement” irons. The more mass bias there is in the toe of the club the more feedback it will provide in the hands while swinging it. The higher MOI irons are more “forgiving” for beginners because the mass distribution heel-to-toe will try to keep face squared to the swing path. The low MOI, toe heavy, irons will try to twist the shaft and face open in the hands in the takeaway and then cause it to snap shut in the downswing before contact with the ball. That is why in the era of hickory shafted club which twisted due to torque created by the toes golfers would drag the club away from the ball with toe trailing during the first foot of the take away.
It was feeling and observing the open / shut affect of toe bias when using a very toe heavy brass “Bullseye” putter which inspired Karsten Solheim to start tinkering with putter designs in his garage in the 1950s resulting the 1A and Anser styles which have heel-toe balance which automatically keep the face squared to the swing arc, increasing the odds of it coming back square to the target at impact/compression/release. Nowadays all clubs are designed around that cause and effect.
Jake, I'm not on your level of skill, but you stopped and pumped at the top to reset the motion to overcome the inertia?? The fact that you had to do that proves that take away does have a significant effect. The reality is that reactionary forces do exist and although not entirely deterministic of path, takeaway can make it much easier to generate a desired club path.
When isolating making a number change, sure any backswing works. But trying to make 72 shots happen with consistent strike and shot shape; it likely matters quite a lot.
You have to be in control of your transition. Yes the golf ball “doesn’t know” but … it’s not going to help the vast majority watching this. There’s a reason top players are trying to hit good positions through out the swing!! so there’s less compensations needed to hit the ball. Rotation is always key .. efficient rotation after a good take away !
First of all a consistent backswing and certsin positions promote and encourage a consistent golf swing. A second thing to think about and one many weekend golfers will not understand is spin, speed and distance control. Hitting straight or hitting a shape u want is the easy bit once u get good at golf. The golf ball when it comes to line and shape of the shot as u say for sure does not give a crap how ur path and loft get there. When you dig deeper and get to compression, spin and clubspeed ur positions absolutely matter. The less rotation through impact, less hands the more consistent u will be in distance and spin control. If u have a body release with forward shaft lean u remove excess rotation and u get the consistency in spin and distance. If u have excessive movements or "compensations" this is not possible…even with correct path and an accurate ball launch angle. Ur compression and club / ball speed will vary alot more than a simple compact swing that hits proven checkpoints taught by a great coach and proven with statistical averages and positions within the golf swing of pga tour players
The ball doesn’t care what you do. But It certainly does mater when you come way from the inside and have to roll your wrists just to get through the shot. Hello big hook.
This is surely correct, but it ignores the question of whether the rerouting process is just as repeatable as a backswing which involves little or no rerouting for the same level of athleticism.
I agree it doesn't matter much. I think weight and leverage matters, but the club position is not so important. At transition, the club is still very maneuverable, so what happens before isn't too critical.
Where can I find a swing path calculator like this? I’ve signed up for lessons and it gives me the body angles and movements but it does not bring up the swing path
36 Comments
Does your golfswing really matter?
I only have an MLM from rapshodo, it tell me launch angle and launch direction. Can I get any feedback on club swing angle from that?
Sure but can you consistently get to the same point or close to it with a repeatable swing with a jacked up backswing? Prob not
So from personal experience, the ability to stay connected and have a fluid backswing improves power, consistency and accuracy, regardless of the club path you create as a result
Golf is what the ball does.😉
So basically my swing sucks either way😂😂
It does matter. This is asinine
The ball only knows impact, doesn't matter how you get there if you can do it consistently
He didn’t answer the question 😂
being a better player doesnt matter for u
How’s life brotherman.
Thanks for teaching.
And you swing is choice.
this is excellent. people need to understand that they have conscious control over movement. it's not just a series of things randomly happening.
golf ball only knows P7
Something I realized experimenting with swing path is that the direction the toe is pointing in the backswing extension influences the swing path to the top.
For example one of the reasons unschooled beginners will swing back low and inside then down over the top and outside-in in their downswing is because they pronate their lead hand in the takeaway which orients the toe of the club backwards before it extends . The ideal swing path bringing club head mass up over the heels is created by having the toe facing forward (towards swing line) at extension /. If that toe position at extension is exaggerated to the point of being horizontal — the result is a very high backswing arc.
This cause and effect can be seen empirically by swinging a club with just the lead arm and changing the toe angle with wrist action. You will notice the path the club head mass swings up after it is pulled horizontal by momentum is affected by the toe angle. Understanding this cause and effect can be used to create different club paths for different shaped shots: toe back and low path like Hogan’s for hitting draws; toe forward and high path like Nicklaus when wanting to hit fades and in-between when wanting to hit straight.
The way the toe orientation affects path is also felt when comparing MB blade to CB “Players” and “Forgiving / Game Improvement” irons. The more mass bias there is in the toe of the club the more feedback it will provide in the hands while swinging it. The higher MOI irons are more “forgiving” for beginners because the mass distribution heel-to-toe will try to keep face squared to the swing path. The low MOI, toe heavy, irons will try to twist the shaft and face open in the hands in the takeaway and then cause it to snap shut in the downswing before contact with the ball. That is why in the era of hickory shafted club which twisted due to torque created by the toes golfers would drag the club away from the ball with toe trailing during the first foot of the take away.
It was feeling and observing the open / shut affect of toe bias when using a very toe heavy brass “Bullseye” putter which inspired Karsten Solheim to start tinkering with putter designs in his garage in the 1950s resulting the 1A and Anser styles which have heel-toe balance which automatically keep the face squared to the swing arc, increasing the odds of it coming back square to the target at impact/compression/release. Nowadays all clubs are designed around that cause and effect.
Jake, I'm not on your level of skill, but you stopped and pumped at the top to reset the motion to overcome the inertia?? The fact that you had to do that proves that take away does have a significant effect. The reality is that reactionary forces do exist and although not entirely deterministic of path, takeaway can make it much easier to generate a desired club path.
Totally great common sense stuff that is not covered enough.
Did he find out?
That must be why its so fucking hard
Straight, straighter, straightest
Putt, putted, in the hole
Play golf 👍🏿, play golf swing 👎🏿
This is so true the only positions that truly matter are impact and pre impact as you want some consistency
The ball doesn’t give a sh#% but your score card might.
When isolating making a number change, sure any backswing works. But trying to make 72 shots happen with consistent strike and shot shape; it likely matters quite a lot.
Last shot was spies to be out in but number came up in out. Why no one else mentioning this ?!
You have to be in control of your transition. Yes the golf ball “doesn’t know” but … it’s not going to help the vast majority watching this. There’s a reason top players are trying to hit good positions through out the swing!! so there’s less compensations needed to hit the ball. Rotation is always key .. efficient rotation after a good take away !
First of all a consistent backswing and certsin positions promote and encourage a consistent golf swing. A second thing to think about and one many weekend golfers will not understand is spin, speed and distance control. Hitting straight or hitting a shape u want is the easy bit once u get good at golf. The golf ball when it comes to line and shape of the shot as u say for sure does not give a crap how ur path and loft get there. When you dig deeper and get to compression, spin and clubspeed ur positions absolutely matter. The less rotation through impact, less hands the more consistent u will be in distance and spin control. If u have a body release with forward shaft lean u remove excess rotation and u get the consistency in spin and distance. If u have excessive movements or "compensations" this is not possible…even with correct path and an accurate ball launch angle. Ur compression and club / ball speed will vary alot more than a simple compact swing that hits proven checkpoints taught by a great coach and proven with statistical averages and positions within the golf swing of pga tour players
Had to say it, Jim furyk has the worst backswing of professional history but he's one of the greatest!
The ball doesn’t care what you do. But It certainly does mater when you come way from the inside and have to roll your wrists just to get through the shot. Hello big hook.
LMAO. Ok captain obvious
This is surely correct, but it ignores the question of whether the rerouting process is just as repeatable as a backswing which involves little or no rerouting for the same level of athleticism.
So does the ball care?? I’m not sure that question was really answered
Can you explain this to me in auto tune ? I learn faster
So you’ve told us about the club path and the angle from inside to outside.
But not what it does to the ball.
Your opening statement “does the ball care about the backswing”
Haven’t told us anything on what it does to ball spin side or otherwise and what flight path the ball will take.
I agree it doesn't matter much. I think weight and leverage matters, but the club position is not so important. At transition, the club is still very maneuverable, so what happens before isn't too critical.
And the face doesn't give a S%$& about where the shaft is swinging. I can hit any shot shape inward or outward.
Thank you
Where can I find a swing path calculator like this? I’ve signed up for lessons and it gives me the body angles and movements but it does not bring up the swing path